I do believe it makes sense to inform others here about the progress. It shows which approach to customer is preferred by support.
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Maybe they donât know better because they exist for like 2 years and have expanded faster than anybody else but people still complain that the Framework is not shipping in their country fast enough?
Sometimes I donât understand people. You canât have it both ways.
I also suggest to not complain about it here but do legal actions if you feel so badly wronged.
Wrong, you just want to stir up the pot and spread your negativity. This is not helpful and not a neutral progress report.
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Being young company is an excuse? When everything is shiny and works like a clock, we celebrate. When there are issues company do not solve, then we excuse them by telling how long they exists? Then it is incompetency. Great company would start to work on solution, communicate with customers, etc.
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No it is not. There is no excuse for illegal behavior but you havenât proven anything. FW likely believes that this issue falls outside the warranty. I would disagree but you can expect no resolution to come from this forum. Especially after opening with the words you said. The quickest way to eliminate support is to threaten legal action. Worse is to threaten legal action and not follow up on it.
Honestly, you clearly have no idea the weight of what you said. It is one thing to state a poor support experience and demand better. Itâs not even wrong to say that the experience has turned you off the company. It wouldnât even be wrong to say that you believe that FW has delivered a shoddy product. You said none of those things. All the previous statements are opinions and can be defended as such. Claiming fraud is such a wildly inflammatory statement that I personally have no interest in helping you even if I could. Fraud requires intent to deceive and good luck proving that. I get it, youâre pissed off and are lacking in a resolution that is satisfying to you, but leading with what you wrote was the wrong move.
If you think there is illegal action going on then report it or quit your complaining.
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Itâs more that they directly said they donât recommend doing that. So they are on record in my ticket indicating that this is a bad idea. Then again, they now responded with a wall of text quote that includes that possibility⌠and the conclusion that they will issue a replacement for the replacement.
If that board is also a brick, explicit request of escalation is the next step, I suppose.
Iâm not going to trick someone into purchasing faulty goods.
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When can your customer claim redress?
Be aware that you are legally bound by any public statements you make about your products, especially through advertisements or on labels.
If you are a retailer, your customers can ask for redress under the legal guarantee provided by EU law - if an item:
- doesnât match the product description
- has different qualities from the model advertised or shown to the client
- is not fit for purpose - either its standard purpose or a specific purpose ordered by the customer which you accepted
- doesnât show the quality and performance normal in products of the same type
- wasnât installed correctly - either by you, or by the customer, due to shortcomings in the instructions
If you inform your customer that the product you are going to sell has quality problems, they cannot then claim redress from you about this particular defect.
What can your customer claim?
Your customers have the right to ask you to do any of the following without any charge (for postage, labour, material, etc.):
- repair the product
- replace the product
- reduce the price
- cancel the contract and reimburse them in full (in some countries, the sales contract cannot be cancelled if the fault is minor, e.g. scratch on a CD case)
Seems pretty clear cut to me.
@Kamil_Hanus I appreciate the updates and would assume current and potential customers will too.
Framework could âfixâ this by removing the systems requirement of a battery to boot.
No other computer, console I have ever owned required a CMOS to TURN ON it would jsut present with a reset BIOS.
Secondly I believe any 11th gen user should be given ML 1220 at least for the duration of the warranty.
Selling the device on because of this fault without disclosing this fault is not cool, that applies equally to Framework themselves. Shameful.
Be aware that you are legally bound by any public statements you make about your products, especially through advertisements or on labels.
Oh yeah on this part alone all 11th gen users could claim for the lies about 60W turbo being achievable.
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This indeed. And a note of ancient wisdom: never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence.
Itâs not easy to set up CS services that are both cost effective and efficient, and I feel they have failed in handling this issue both generally and in my specific case. But the idea they want to rip us off is over the top and does not match evidence: if nothing else they are ending up spending so much time on my case that they are basically burning money. They DO try to understand if a replacement is needed and then DO issue replacements. It just takes a looooot more time than it arguably should.
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Before people start dog piling on me for what I said, read that above quote. I agree FW should offer more redress for these grievances and encourage EU customers to reach out to whatever agency is responsible for consumer rights. It would be better if FW would just do the right thing here but if they will not then you should endeavor to force them if need be.
I appreciate the fact that you see that I am not hostile to complaints, just wild accusations. Thank you.
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Stop making excuses for a company. They know exactly what they are doing.
Cmon Framework offer a buy back board scheme or a big discount for 11th gen folks for a 12th or 13th Gen board.
After all it was us 11th Gen supporters that got you this far. 
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If youâre saying they are doing fraud, then get a lawyer and open a case.
Seriously, I can understand that people are disappointed when their loved product doesnât function the way they expected it to.
But to accuse them of willingly doing things wrong is such a big step that Iâm very disappointed in how the emotions can take the better part of a customer.
I can promise you that if you were in Frameworks shoes, you would understand how painful this process can be. You tried very hard to create and deliver your first very thoughtful product to the customers, just to realize after shipping that the manufacturer have had issues in production and/or something else went wrong.
Now instead of resolving the issue with the customer in a long process (insurances, manufacturers, timeszones, technicians, etc) you have to read in the forums that you purposely created bad laptops for fraud.
This is insane. You should be happy this forum is open as-is, on Apple, Microsoft and alike you would be banned or threads would be removed if you were to accuse them of such.
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Not saying that. As a company (well one with any sense) they will have spoken to lawyers about their liabilities and taken on board their advices. Iâm sure they are doing as they are told.
Whether thatâs the right thing morallyâŚwho knows.
As for other companies. Well Framework are new and if the community can help them shape their attitudes to service and goodwill then all the better.
Always a select few here that want those with issues to âgo awayâ âBlah blah blah Iâm not listeningâŚI donât have the issue so you shouldnât either!â
Mistakes and flaws will appear again and again, no time like the present to get used to properly dealing with them in a manner that builds confidence with customers.
Too many times now if you rightfully complain to a company itâs âwahhhh that man was nasty to us!â. No! Iâm a disappointed customer!
Back in my day you got a complaint, you took it on the chin, didnât pass the buck and dealt with it.
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Iâm with you that the issue should be dealt with accordingly and that it should be resolved in a customer friendly way.
However, I do realize that some people have wrong expecations when it comes to Framwork, especially asking them to do things even their competition doesnât.
Also, and that is even worse, people accuse them of purposefully doing fraud and treating their customers wrong/bad. Iâve yet to see one true example of that.
What we can agree on is that some people believe they are treated worse because Frameworks reaction is not what they hoped it would be. That has nothing to do with bad customer support though.
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Partially, however, Frameworkâs USP is doing things their competition doesnât⌠
Let me quote Terms of Sale Framework | Terms of Sale
If you are a UK or EU consumer (other than a French consumer), these terms are governed by English law. However, if you are a consumer and resident of any UK or EU country you will benefit from mandatory provisions of, and legal rights available to you under, the laws of that country. Nothing in these Terms affects your rights as a consumer to rely on these local law mandatory provisions and legal rights. If you are: (i) a consumer having no permanent residence in the UK or EU at the time of the conclusion of the contract, or having moved your permanent residence abroad after the conclusion of the contract; or (ii) if your place of residence or habitual abode is unknown at the time the action is brought, the exclusive place of jurisdiction and performance shall be the registered office of Framework. Otherwise, the place of jurisdiction shall be determined in accordance with general statutory rules.
Then quote support response.
You also mentioned that you want to send in the laptop for repair. We can do that, by sending the laptop back to us for diagnostic and repair. However sending the laptop for diagnostic and repair has a service fee, and our certified technician will provide you a quotation of the service fee once we receive your laptop and can inspect it for assessment.
Then qoute european legislative, which can be only more restrictively implemented in german law (Guarantees, cancelling and returning your purchases - Your Europe)
You always have the right to a minimum 2-year guarantee at no cost, regardless of whether you bought your goods online, in a shop or by mail order.
This 2-year guarantee is your minimum right, however national rules in your country may give you extra protection.
If goods you bought anywhere in the EU turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised, the seller must repair or replace them free of charge or give you a price reduction or a full refund.
TBH I am waiting for one more response from support (and hoping they want to solve issue correctly) before getting in touch with local European Consumer Centre.
Reason why I post here is that other people can make image about FW support and compare their expectations with reality. Framework states something in ToS, but then provides different information to consumer (e.g. free of charge repair vs. service fee they want from me).
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Going to get a bit of flak for this but, this is not a FW issue but instead an Intel issue so may we shut up about this issue and complain to Intel not FW as FW does not deserve this shitshow due to Intel. Do correct me if you think Iâm wrong.
You are wrong as Framework is seller of product so Framework is responsible for goods to be operational.
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Most FWs work fine, and they have said if you have this issue we will give you a new mainboard
Which likely will be a 11th genâŚwith the same problem.
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My 11th gen has NEVER had an issue, apart from the one time I removed the mainboard which was my fault.
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