I’m considering selling my 11th Gen off soon. Just not reliable enough for my usage patterns.
Lenovo have some good machines.
Probably not. I’ve set up a few Lenovos for customers recently and I’m pretty impressed.
They switch on when you ask them too as well! 
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I absolutely agree. I have 3 new Lenovos, a Thinkpad T14, a ThinkBook 14 Gen 4+ and a Legion gaming machine. All have 16:10 screens. Never understood the default 16:9 screen, I don’t like screens of this ratio on laptops, never have, but it was hard to get anything else mainstream, until recently. The Thinkbook is particularly good, it has a webcam privacy slide, a built in dongle hider, micro SD reader and ethernet, everything you could want and it’s solidly built too. And, as you say, it switches on when you want it to, even after weeks of being uncharged.
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I gotta admit I’ve also strongly considered selling my 11th Gen Framework and moving on. Selling a laptop with power issues felt like a bad idea, I’d have to mention it in the description and it would undoubtedly impact it’s value. Now, with my CMOS battery replaced and my laptop running properly once again, I feel better about the idea of selling and find myself again at a crossroads.
There are things about the Framework that I like and make me want to keep it. It’s a light, slim, reasonably powerful laptop that looks and feels nice. The unique screen resolution is a plus in my opinion. And, of course, I already have it in hand.
The upgradability is neat, I guess, but I’m totally against buying a 12th Gen board just to fix this CMOS battery problem. If I do choose to upgrade my mainboard, it will be after another generation of mainboards is released. Then, I can either get a bigger boost, or buy a 12th Gen board on discount, and with the advantage of time allowing me to know what issues these boards have.
The idea of just selling and getting something more reliable is tempting, though. If there’s something as light, powerful, and aesthetically pleasing as the Framework, but without the power issues, I’d definitely give it a look. Especially if it switches on when you push the button, I don’t think we’ve stressed this enough here. 
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I wouldn’t worry about selling it and wouldn’t mention the CMOS issue. Why? Well Framework doesn’t so why should you or I?
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Oh but so many told me this was a ‘design feature’ and not a flaw. And as I said, Framework can sell 11th gen without advising a customer and we all love Framework. 
Nothing was stopping Framework offering a buy back scheme or discount for 12th Gen for those affected but they didn’t see it as a problem.
Plus they may be someone who uses it everyday…
Caveat Emptor baby!
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I came to the party too. TBH I am deeply disappointed by Framework approach. Device is covered by warranty, so I expect them to solve issue. Not pointing us to reset mainboard or messing with different chargers. I bought repairable device e.g. to be able to get parts when warranty is over or when I want to upgrade. Not to solve engineers problems. Devices is faulty, company is responsible for warranty. That’s what our contract is about. Unfortunately people at support just sends link to wiki.
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Luckily I bought device in EU market, so customers are quite strongly protected.
If goods you bought anywhere in the EU turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised, the seller must repair or replace them free of charge or give you a price reduction or a full refund. You can usually only ask for a partial or full refund when it is not possible to repair or replace the goods.
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And I am getting close to that point.
Most recent attempt from support was to have me update to the beta 3.17 bios and… wait for it… charge it for 24h.
So, did that, and one hour out of wall power it no longer boots. It simply is not a laptop anymore.
I’ll give it to the support people - they fast to respond. But at this point it seems like they’re not given enough authority by the company to actually fix the problem, so their next response probably ends up deciding whether I just ask for a refund and buy a lenovo.
This one is fun as well:
Any repair or replacement should be completed within a reasonable time, and without significant inconvenience to you.
Months of charging it 24h uninterrupted? Yeah. I think that counts as “significant inconvenience”. It’s a long time now that this device has only been a nuisance that I basically cannot use freely because I keep being in this stupid dance.
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The yard stick of humanity will not be needed, imo.
To me, it’s a matter of risk, not morality. If it functions to spec and Framework feels confident enough to continue selling the same product, why shouldn’t anybody else? My concern is shipping out a premium priced laptop to an online buyer, only for them to discover the issue, call it a deceptive listing, and pull some refund shenanigans which leave me without money OR a laptop.
I’m inclined to agree with @Jason_Dagless here. Now that the CMOS battery issue has been alleviated on my device, it doesn’t feel deceptive to sell it as “in good working condition”. As you’ve described, it’s is simply operating as designed, for better or for worse. Just like all of us, future buyers have a duty to perform their own due diligence on the caveats and characteristics of the product’s design.
If it IS such an issue, then it’s clear Framework needs to do a better job of documenting this issue and presenting that information to the public. Outside the forums, the only real documentation is the mainboard reset guide, which doesn’t explain why you would ever have to perform such a procedure.
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Same as morality, I don’t think ethics are a concern in this matter for all the aforementioned reasons. Just my assessment, of course.
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This is not the forum where I expected to find an expose in nihilism, but… OK.
Also, @amoun, you’re wrong in saying:
You are not in agreement with scholarship on the matter.
Morality:
“principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour.”
Ethics:
“moral principles that govern a person’s behaviour or the conducting of an activity.”
Maybe less apologism and back to the topic. In the case of Framework, their whole deal is [list of reasons they are better for consumers and for the environment and for blahblah].
Up to them to maintain that. If they don’t, they lose our business, and gain my refund claim.
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Yeah, I’m not educated on the finer philosophical differences between ethics and morality, but they have at least one thing in common: they’re not issues with regards to reselling a functional Framework laptop and moving on.
If the idea of this is ethically (or morally) troublesome, perhaps the ethical (or moral) thing to do is to buy it from me at full retail price (plus shipping cost) so as to protect other potential buyers from frustration. 
Latest development:
No, changing to the 3.17 BIOS (whose changelog mentioned nothing relevant to this issue) did nothing.
Now they’re asking for pictures. AGAIN. And, to reiterate: this is the replacement board. For some reason they keep insisting that I troubleshoot the DOA board, instead of just sending that one back and figuring out how to fix the original board that is slightly less broken.
Framework, you’re losing me. I am, as of today, switching from “check these people out because they fight the good fight” to “stay the [expletive] away because the incompetence is just scary”.
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Save yourself some headaches and just sell it if you can. They’re trying to wear you down until you give up like most 11th gen buyers have dealing with support.
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@Daniel_Agorander - that sounds like an unpleasant ride. Have you tried requesting escalation to second level Support? Also, while you state that you are hesitant to replace the RTC battery without prior authorization, it is a consumable part - not that it should be worn down at this point, but the point stands - and there is a documented procedure for replacing it. It may be worth the try to see if it gets the machine to work how it is intended. Good luck!
@Twistgibber - fyi
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I just feel they want to fraud buyers. Now support responded me I should pay service fee for applying my right given by european Customer protection law.
You also mentioned that you want to send in the laptop for repair. We can do that, by sending the laptop back to us for diagnostic and repair. However sending the laptop for diagnostic and repair has a service fee, and our certified technician will provide you a quotation of the service fee once we receive your laptop and can inspect it for assessment.
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@Kamil_Hanus Those are strong words right there. If you truly feel you are being defrauded, then you should consult legal counsel. Having said that, I seriously doubt FW is doing anything illegal. I’ll be the first to admit this entire situation is terrible and can leave a poor taste in a customers mouth but illegal is a hard accusation and you should have proof before making it.
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I use strong words as they approach is just wrong. Anytime I want to open warranty claim, I send goods to seller. Anytime at every seller except Framework. That is reason for choosing my words. If my device is under warranty, I am not willing to do work for service department.
You want prove? Why support informs me about service fee for applying warranty? That is illegal in EU if seller wants to charge customer.
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@Kamil_Hanus Then make a complaint with whatever agency is in charge of consumer protection. Hire an attorney/legal counsel. Complaining on user forums will accomplish nothing for you. Punish FW if they are engaging in illegal business practices.
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