Save yourself some headaches and just sell it if you can. They’re trying to wear you down until you give up like most 11th gen buyers have dealing with support.
2 Likes
@Daniel_Agorander - that sounds like an unpleasant ride. Have you tried requesting escalation to second level Support? Also, while you state that you are hesitant to replace the RTC battery without prior authorization, it is a consumable part - not that it should be worn down at this point, but the point stands - and there is a documented procedure for replacing it. It may be worth the try to see if it gets the machine to work how it is intended. Good luck!
@Twistgibber - fyi
1 Like
I just feel they want to fraud buyers. Now support responded me I should pay service fee for applying my right given by european Customer protection law.
You also mentioned that you want to send in the laptop for repair. We can do that, by sending the laptop back to us for diagnostic and repair. However sending the laptop for diagnostic and repair has a service fee, and our certified technician will provide you a quotation of the service fee once we receive your laptop and can inspect it for assessment.
2 Likes
@Kamil_Hanus Those are strong words right there. If you truly feel you are being defrauded, then you should consult legal counsel. Having said that, I seriously doubt FW is doing anything illegal. I’ll be the first to admit this entire situation is terrible and can leave a poor taste in a customers mouth but illegal is a hard accusation and you should have proof before making it.
3 Likes
I use strong words as they approach is just wrong. Anytime I want to open warranty claim, I send goods to seller. Anytime at every seller except Framework. That is reason for choosing my words. If my device is under warranty, I am not willing to do work for service department.
You want prove? Why support informs me about service fee for applying warranty? That is illegal in EU if seller wants to charge customer.
3 Likes
@Kamil_Hanus Then make a complaint with whatever agency is in charge of consumer protection. Hire an attorney/legal counsel. Complaining on user forums will accomplish nothing for you. Punish FW if they are engaging in illegal business practices.
1 Like
I do believe it makes sense to inform others here about the progress. It shows which approach to customer is preferred by support.
2 Likes
Maybe they don’t know better because they exist for like 2 years and have expanded faster than anybody else but people still complain that the Framework is not shipping in their country fast enough?
Sometimes I don’t understand people. You can’t have it both ways.
I also suggest to not complain about it here but do legal actions if you feel so badly wronged.
Wrong, you just want to stir up the pot and spread your negativity. This is not helpful and not a neutral progress report.
5 Likes
Being young company is an excuse? When everything is shiny and works like a clock, we celebrate. When there are issues company do not solve, then we excuse them by telling how long they exists? Then it is incompetency. Great company would start to work on solution, communicate with customers, etc.
3 Likes
No it is not. There is no excuse for illegal behavior but you haven’t proven anything. FW likely believes that this issue falls outside the warranty. I would disagree but you can expect no resolution to come from this forum. Especially after opening with the words you said. The quickest way to eliminate support is to threaten legal action. Worse is to threaten legal action and not follow up on it.
Honestly, you clearly have no idea the weight of what you said. It is one thing to state a poor support experience and demand better. It’s not even wrong to say that the experience has turned you off the company. It wouldn’t even be wrong to say that you believe that FW has delivered a shoddy product. You said none of those things. All the previous statements are opinions and can be defended as such. Claiming fraud is such a wildly inflammatory statement that I personally have no interest in helping you even if I could. Fraud requires intent to deceive and good luck proving that. I get it, you’re pissed off and are lacking in a resolution that is satisfying to you, but leading with what you wrote was the wrong move.
If you think there is illegal action going on then report it or quit your complaining.
4 Likes
It’s more that they directly said they don’t recommend doing that. So they are on record in my ticket indicating that this is a bad idea. Then again, they now responded with a wall of text quote that includes that possibility… and the conclusion that they will issue a replacement for the replacement.
If that board is also a brick, explicit request of escalation is the next step, I suppose.
I’m not going to trick someone into purchasing faulty goods.
2 Likes
When can your customer claim redress?
Be aware that you are legally bound by any public statements you make about your products, especially through advertisements or on labels.
If you are a retailer, your customers can ask for redress under the legal guarantee provided by EU law - if an item:
- doesn’t match the product description
- has different qualities from the model advertised or shown to the client
- is not fit for purpose - either its standard purpose or a specific purpose ordered by the customer which you accepted
- doesn’t show the quality and performance normal in products of the same type
- wasn’t installed correctly - either by you, or by the customer, due to shortcomings in the instructions
If you inform your customer that the product you are going to sell has quality problems, they cannot then claim redress from you about this particular defect.
What can your customer claim?
Your customers have the right to ask you to do any of the following without any charge (for postage, labour, material, etc.):
- repair the product
- replace the product
- reduce the price
- cancel the contract and reimburse them in full (in some countries, the sales contract cannot be cancelled if the fault is minor, e.g. scratch on a CD case)
Seems pretty clear cut to me.
@Kamil_Hanus I appreciate the updates and would assume current and potential customers will too.
Framework could “fix” this by removing the systems requirement of a battery to boot.
No other computer, console I have ever owned required a CMOS to TURN ON it would jsut present with a reset BIOS.
Secondly I believe any 11th gen user should be given ML 1220 at least for the duration of the warranty.
Selling the device on because of this fault without disclosing this fault is not cool, that applies equally to Framework themselves. Shameful.
Be aware that you are legally bound by any public statements you make about your products, especially through advertisements or on labels.
Oh yeah on this part alone all 11th gen users could claim for the lies about 60W turbo being achievable.
1 Like
This indeed. And a note of ancient wisdom: never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence.
It’s not easy to set up CS services that are both cost effective and efficient, and I feel they have failed in handling this issue both generally and in my specific case. But the idea they want to rip us off is over the top and does not match evidence: if nothing else they are ending up spending so much time on my case that they are basically burning money. They DO try to understand if a replacement is needed and then DO issue replacements. It just takes a looooot more time than it arguably should.
2 Likes
Before people start dog piling on me for what I said, read that above quote. I agree FW should offer more redress for these grievances and encourage EU customers to reach out to whatever agency is responsible for consumer rights. It would be better if FW would just do the right thing here but if they will not then you should endeavor to force them if need be.
I appreciate the fact that you see that I am not hostile to complaints, just wild accusations. Thank you.
2 Likes
- It may well fall outside the warranty,
- but it still can fall within a 'not fit for purpose’
in which case a refund is the only option. However the ‘not fit for purpose’ comes with the caveat ~ if you have been using the product for a ‘length’ of time knowing this and then later get fed up and say it is unfit, well that won’t work.
How long had you had the laptop? How long have you known about the problem?
3 Likes
Stop making excuses for a company. They know exactly what they are doing.
Cmon Framework offer a buy back board scheme or a big discount for 11th gen folks for a 12th or 13th Gen board.
After all it was us 11th Gen supporters that got you this far. 
4 Likes
If you’re saying they are doing fraud, then get a lawyer and open a case.
Seriously, I can understand that people are disappointed when their loved product doesn’t function the way they expected it to.
But to accuse them of willingly doing things wrong is such a big step that I’m very disappointed in how the emotions can take the better part of a customer.
I can promise you that if you were in Frameworks shoes, you would understand how painful this process can be. You tried very hard to create and deliver your first very thoughtful product to the customers, just to realize after shipping that the manufacturer have had issues in production and/or something else went wrong.
Now instead of resolving the issue with the customer in a long process (insurances, manufacturers, timeszones, technicians, etc) you have to read in the forums that you purposely created bad laptops for fraud.
This is insane. You should be happy this forum is open as-is, on Apple, Microsoft and alike you would be banned or threads would be removed if you were to accuse them of such.
3 Likes
Not saying that. As a company (well one with any sense) they will have spoken to lawyers about their liabilities and taken on board their advices. I’m sure they are doing as they are told.
Whether that’s the right thing morally…who knows.
As for other companies. Well Framework are new and if the community can help them shape their attitudes to service and goodwill then all the better.
Always a select few here that want those with issues to “go away” “Blah blah blah I’m not listening…I don’t have the issue so you shouldn’t either!”
Mistakes and flaws will appear again and again, no time like the present to get used to properly dealing with them in a manner that builds confidence with customers.
Too many times now if you rightfully complain to a company it’s “wahhhh that man was nasty to us!”. No! I’m a disappointed customer!
Back in my day you got a complaint, you took it on the chin, didn’t pass the buck and dealt with it.
1 Like
I’m with you that the issue should be dealt with accordingly and that it should be resolved in a customer friendly way.
However, I do realize that some people have wrong expecations when it comes to Framwork, especially asking them to do things even their competition doesn’t.
Also, and that is even worse, people accuse them of purposefully doing fraud and treating their customers wrong/bad. I’ve yet to see one true example of that.
What we can agree on is that some people believe they are treated worse because Frameworks reaction is not what they hoped it would be. That has nothing to do with bad customer support though.
1 Like