Viability of an ML 1220 rechargable battery for RTC | CMOS (11th gen)

Partially, however, Framework’s USP is doing things their competition doesn’t… :wink:

Let me quote Terms of Sale Framework | Terms of Sale

If you are a UK or EU consumer (other than a French consumer), these terms are governed by English law. However, if you are a consumer and resident of any UK or EU country you will benefit from mandatory provisions of, and legal rights available to you under, the laws of that country. Nothing in these Terms affects your rights as a consumer to rely on these local law mandatory provisions and legal rights. If you are: (i) a consumer having no permanent residence in the UK or EU at the time of the conclusion of the contract, or having moved your permanent residence abroad after the conclusion of the contract; or (ii) if your place of residence or habitual abode is unknown at the time the action is brought, the exclusive place of jurisdiction and performance shall be the registered office of Framework. Otherwise, the place of jurisdiction shall be determined in accordance with general statutory rules.

Then quote support response.

You also mentioned that you want to send in the laptop for repair. We can do that, by sending the laptop back to us for diagnostic and repair. However sending the laptop for diagnostic and repair has a service fee, and our certified technician will provide you a quotation of the service fee once we receive your laptop and can inspect it for assessment.

Then qoute european legislative, which can be only more restrictively implemented in german law (Guarantees, cancelling and returning your purchases - Your Europe)

You always have the right to a minimum 2-year guarantee at no cost, regardless of whether you bought your goods online, in a shop or by mail order.
This 2-year guarantee is your minimum right, however national rules in your country may give you extra protection.
If goods you bought anywhere in the EU turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised, the seller must repair or replace them free of charge or give you a price reduction or a full refund.

TBH I am waiting for one more response from support (and hoping they want to solve issue correctly) before getting in touch with local European Consumer Centre.

Reason why I post here is that other people can make image about FW support and compare their expectations with reality. Framework states something in ToS, but then provides different information to consumer (e.g. free of charge repair vs. service fee they want from me).

1 Like

Going to get a bit of flak for this but, this is not a FW issue but instead an Intel issue so may we shut up about this issue and complain to Intel not FW as FW does not deserve this shitshow due to Intel. Do correct me if you think I’m wrong.

You are wrong as Framework is seller of product so Framework is responsible for goods to be operational.

4 Likes

Most FWs work fine, and they have said if you have this issue we will give you a new mainboard

Which likely will be a 11th gen…with the same problem.

3 Likes

Definitely not. Morals are a personal issue.

Framework use common, ‘get away with it’ ethics and are nowhere near the bottom of the barrel.

My 11th gen has NEVER had an issue, apart from the one time I removed the mainboard which was my fault.

1 Like

Leave it in your bag for a month or a couple of weeks. It will have an issue most likely. All 11th gen have the flaw. It’s built in. A rechargeable CMOS battery was a bad choice for this chipset.

1 Like

On the contrary a compatible non-rechargeable wouldn’t last long enough to satisfy putting it away for months on end

We will never really know. But a lot of other laptops have them…

1 Like

A friend has just bought an HP with the ML1220 with no problems, and there are other Dell which use them.

1 Like

Depends. There appears to be two issues in play here. I’ll take mine as an example:

First board: is fine for about a week away from wall power, then reaches the completely unbootable state that requires mainboard reset process. Things attempted under guidance from Support: long charge cycles (twice), reset (had already done so), BIOS update (no effect), switch to officially supported Linux distro (no change). Eventually, after all this troubleshooting (and asking for and receiving some pictures of the coin battery holder), they issued a replacement board.

Second board: becomes unbootable after 1h away from wall power, but will boot if power is supplied from the wall. Do the whole dance again (+ try Bios 3.17) and as of now they’re going to replace that replacement board after looking at pictures of the coin battery holder.

So the second board may or may not have the “unbootable state” issue, but both times it seems like they find SOMETHING in the pictures of the battery holder that makes them classify the mainboard as physically defective and in need of replacement. (Perhaps they should lead with that request for pictures, because at least in my case that seems to be where the diagnosis was made. Would have saved many weeks of troubleshooting. :stuck_out_tongue: )

Basically: yes, all 11th gen board probably have the same underlying flaw, but it does seem like there is also an issue with the coin holder that may be making the issue worse for some boards than others.

1 Like

Just a poor contact, i.e. increased resistance with mess with charging and supply

I’ve left my laptop for 2 weeks and even 2 months and its never failed to turn on, and usually only discharges about 4%

Yes, but that’s my point. So you might have one board with a “good” coin holder - issue takes many weeks to manifest (if at all). Bad coin holder - issue takes hours or days to manifest. This would fit with their statement that some boards seem more affected than others.

1 Like

Just to update:

A non rechargeable CR1220 at 38mAh is only slightlt better than twice the capacity of the ML1120 at 18mAh

So you may get 6 weeks.

The problem is the a) the rate of drain and b) the lack of foresight in having it charge from the main battery b) being the BIG issue.

Recall then? Surely that’s the right thing to do? Send out properly tested and approved boards to those affected. Minimum 6 weeks unplugged to power on.

See…another solution. I can wait.

“But you can’t expect Framework…” Hold on, this the company that said ‘NO!’ to Can’t isn’t it?

1 Like

Personal suspicion? They looked at the possibility but ran the numbers and saw that it would drive them straight into Chapter 11. After all, this is something that at least in theory affects almost all laptops they’ve sold so far. So then they might be better off (as a company) to replace on an as-needed basis, especially now that the 11th gen boards are being phased out.

Not exactly the “optimal”, but a bankrupt FW would have even more trouble supporting us. (If only the dance with Support didn’t take so long…)

4 Likes

It’s a tough call indeed.

Looking down at my Framework on charge after its fifth ‘fail to boot from my bag’ routine since I’ve had it.

3 Likes