Warranty Claims and Freight Forwarding

General Topics
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I feel that I should inform you about approach taken by the support. It shows how they are trying avoid responsibility for every cost. Never had such a bad experience claiming warranty with any other company.

Ticket was escalated and now FW do not want to pay service fee for repair for me. Now they claim I send device outside Germany so I lost warranty. Except I claim my rights in Germany and tell this to them all the time.

However, upon reviewing the order, it is clear from the delivery address that the Laptop was sent directly to an unsupported country using a freight forwarding service

Both, my shipping and billing address is in Germany.

Also they are stating forwarded orders are excluded from warranty.

Our terms of sale exclude forwarded orders from receiving parts or replacement under warranty. (See for reference our limited Warranty for Germany where the order was forwarded on from here​)

At first, no such a statement is present in Warrany or Terms of Sale. They just warn about losing responsibilities for shipping in knowledge base (Does Framework support freight forwarding of products to unsupported countries/regions (non-EU)?), which againt, is not part of ToS.

Secondly, this is not event relevant point. I still repeat them I am claiming warranty in Germany and they are saying I claim warranty in other country. Silly.

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@TheTwistgibber Would be interested to see what caused this to happen.

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I’m a bit confused by your descriptions, so for clarification:

Were you specifically requesting to send them the machine prior to troubleshooting steps, they do the troubleshooting, then send it back to you?

Because if so: you’re actually asking for more than is normal. Example: GF had issues with her Lenovo charging. They asked her to try a few things. They didn’t work. They then issued her a new charger under warranty.

The whole forwarding-thing secondary, of course. To be clear on that: did you order it for shipping to Germany, after they opened sales to Germany, and you are now asking for service in Germany?

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Maybe it is due to my poor knowledge of english. I will try to verify my statements with Deepl.

I requested support of providing me information where I can send device physically (and I am willing to pay shipping fee) for warranty claim as I do not know where authorized service department is located. I do this everytime some hardware is broken - I send it back to seller, they evaluate customer statements and solve RME. Never had an issue. If customer is not allowed to claim warranty, they send device back, without no compensation. Thus I consider it as normal. At least this is my experience until now on European market.

Support initially wanted service fee for doing diagnostic. Then they reevaluated their statements and now they claim I am not able to claim warranty as they suspect me of forwarding package to unsupported country. But the thing is I do not want to claim warranty from unsupported country, but from Germany. Which is officially supported.

To be open, this is what I requested (in compliance of German market rules)

… Please, provide me instructions of shipping device back to you
as it is not operating at all. I also request the removal of the defect and
the delivery of equipment that will not malfunction. In the event that there
is a defect in the design of the equipment and it is not possible to deliver
a product without defects, I request cancelation of purchase contract.

Yes. I ordered to Germany when shipping to Germany was officially opened. I want to send device back from Germany.

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I’m also in the European market, and this is absolutely not my experience. They ARE allowed to ask questions and see if they can help you on the spot. It is if they are unable to help you in this way that the rights you quote come into effect.

Because you appear to be asking them to start off with step two. Step one is for them to attempt to help you in-situ. (See the example of my GF’s Lenovo - again, also European market. Netherlands, in this case.)

What you should do, in full compliance with European regulations, is to let them attempt to resolve the issue. If they are unable, THEN you have the right to get it sent for repair or replacement. In the case of Framework - I am very annoyed at them and their inefficiency and opacity, but they are not objecting to sending replacements. Indeed, the replacement of the replacement is currently heading to me, without me having even sent the original unit back yet.

To quote the articles you shared regarding EU regulations:

If goods you bought anywhere in the EU turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised, the seller must repair or replace them free of charge or give you a price reduction or a full refund.

Note: this does NOT say that you shall be able to send them the item, no questions asked, and no interaction for troubleshooting. I feel you’re acting under a misapprehension of EU regulation here. They ARE able to ask you questions, ask you to furnish images, data, or other evidence to help them understand the issue. (I’ve worked customer support. The amount of times people want to RMA shit because they didn’t understand they need to install drivers…)

Further, I am very confused at the idea that you purchased a laptop sold specifically on the USP of user-repairability, but… you object to anything other than sending the whole thing over somewhere? To my mind, it sounds like you want a Mac. (And perhaps here the problem lies: are you operating under habits instilled by purchasing items that are not in any way user-repairable? If my main machine - a Desktop - has a fault in the graphics card, there is no way for me to inspect it without doing things they say I shouldn’t do. Thus: sending it is the first step. In this case though, you CAN and the whole reason for the laptop to exist - the USP - is that you can.)

The whole forwarding thing on the other hand does sound weird. Something is off there, maybe ask them to specify exactly why they believe what they believe.

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Just to set the record straight here @Kamil_Hanus, you freight forwarded to an unsupported country and have refused to troubleshoot/work with us in Support. The billing address you provided does not match the actual payment method issuing bank or country as well. Let’s please make sure the facts are represented here. Our Support Lead provided you available options, and you have not been satisfied with them. We’re sorry that is the case, but that is where we stand.

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As a question here, since I’ve been in that reality when I lived in Ireland:

What would this end up looking like if I still lived in Dublin, ordered a Framework for delivery in Dublin, but used my Swedish VISA card? (Which I used for the entire 5 years of my residence in Ireland, since Irish banks are beyond stupidly expensive so it was cheaper for me to keep my Swedish bank and card and just absorb currency conversion costs.)

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@Daniel_Agorander This would mean false billing information was entered as our system would not allow Swedish billing information to be used to make the purchase. We can also see where the purchase was actually made from geographically.

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Ah! So if I understand it correctly, what would have happened “back then” for me is:

Shipping Address: My Dublin address.
Billing information: The Swedish address corresponding to my Swedish bank.
…and then no issue at all.

Edit: Assuming the system accepts the separate billing country info etc, obv. (To be fair, there were many times back then where I got issues purchasing things online because “zomg wrong country between where you are and where you card/billing is”, but the banking costs still made it worth the bother for me.)

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@anon81945988 No. To protect privacy, all I can say is that this specific instance is open and shut. The facts were not properly represented before my entry. We’ve provided the available options to this customer, and that is all.

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@Kamil_Hanus It seems that if you truly feel FW is in the wrong here and that they are claiming something incorrect to get out of a warranty claim, you will need to file a complaint with whatever relevant authority you have and/or hire legal counsel.

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Depends.

In my case back in Ireland, what I’d do is:

Shipping address: My Dublin address.
Billing address: My (old) Swedish address corresponding to the registration on my card. (I was able to keep it since I had previously rented an apartment from family and was able to retain postage address there.)
IP geolocation: Dublin.

Things get different if attempting to use that Swedish card, but claiming a Dublin billing address. Etc etc. I guess, at least. :stuck_out_tongue: (And obviously, some retailers might refuse that mix of delivery/billing address, in which case I would reach out to them prior to purchase to see if there’s a way to solve this. In some cases, I just had a friend buy it for me using “gifting” functionality and then hand them cash - if it was something cheap like a game through Origin, as was one case of problems.)

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So @Kamil_Hanus you ordered your Framework and freight forwarded it, it doesnt work as expected and instead of troubleshooting it yourself, you ask Framework for support (and even full replacement), which they are not even required to since you did something officially not supported by Framework, and now complain about it in the forums?

Wow, I’m speechless. You should have just bought a Mac and we all would have avoided this drama.

@TheTwistgibber thanks for the official Update!

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It is not illegal to freight-forward. But it exposes you to risks, since you’re now exporting the equipment beyond where the manufacturer can and will support it.

Think of it like this: if I buy a laptop at Mediamarkt here in the Netherlands, then move to Italy. Mediamarkt here will not support me in Italy. But me moving the equipment is not illegal.

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I’ve actually read on this topic a bit and it looks like it can both be legal and illegal depending on a lot of factors. I’ve modified my previous message, thanks for the correction!

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I ordered my laptop in early September when Australia was open for receiving orders. My billing and shipping address belong to my son in Australia. However I used a Visa card issued by a bank in Malaysia, and there was no problem in the transaction. The laptop was delivered to the address in Australia at end of October, and I just received the laptop in Malaysia 2 weeks ago. My son brought it along while on visit to Malaysia 2 weeks ago. Will this be considered as freight forwarding?

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@Dr_Davaraj_Balasingh While you may get a response here if theTwistGibber has the time, I would recommend sending your question to support directly if you want to be sure to get an answer.

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@Dr_Davaraj_Balasingh Likely yes, since Malaysia isn’t a supported country. Your son may not be a freight forwarding company but you used him like one. But yes, contacting support would be your best bet.

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@Dr_Davaraj_Balasingh So long as you understand that all dealings with the company have to take place in Australia it doesn’t really matter. Once the laptop is in your possession you can take it wherever you please. As this thread has highlighted, the unreasonable expectations that Framework will support you wherever you please are incorrect. This is not Framework trying to be mean to potential customers. Rather this is Framework operating within the constraints of international law.

Framework really is working hard to be able to sell their products in other countries. It is incredibly complex and unfortunately takes longer than we all would care for it to.

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It is sad how the Framework’s reasoning has evolved over time:

  1. They ask the customer, who may not be a professional person, to do the work of a technical person. At a time when the product is under warranty.
  2. They want the customer to pay a service fee to handle a claim. Unauthorized.
  3. They quote their terms and conditions and paragraphs that are not in them at all.
  4. They fabricate the loss of warranty when a private individual ships his goods on the open European market. They do not know the terms of my contract with the company where I have set up my foreign addresses. They don’t even care about them.
  5. They put it in my mouth that I want to make a claim from another country. They do not know European legislation and are unable to support their claims by quoting German law or European legislation.

Framework has changed its statement several times as to why it will not resolve the claim. They probably do not want to resolve the complaint even though they have harmed customers by selling defective equipment.

As promised, I will add all email communication here once I remove personal data.

The company must be aware that the European market is open and they are not entitled to limit customer rights to the German market only. At the same time, I am already in communication with the European Consumer Centre, which will take over this dispute. As soon as I have their opinion available, I will publish it here again.

The question is whether Framework is open enough to address the issue. Someone told me that so far it looks like a fraudulent act by a foreign entity and an attempt to complicate the situation to the point where the customer gives up. I am disappointed and disgusted by the marketing glitz. The company is unable to make a factual argument, to back up its claim of claim termination. Amazon is fairer to its customers.

Howgh.

Translated with DeepL Translate: The world's most accurate translator (free version)

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