However, after a series of inconveniences that arose during regular use of the computer, e.g. unable to connect two monitors, hassle to share my screen in Discord/Zoom, audio and screen quality not the best, I began to question my purchase. After having experienced a MacBook Pro at work for a year now, I have realized that it is a much superior option in most dimensions (performance, build, screen/audio quality). Now, I am thinking to migrate fully to MacBook but price is a factor that, like most, makes me think twice.
I have a similarly spec’d FW 16 and have had none of the issues you describe. I run Linux Mint 22.1 with two external monitors on this rig and have not been able to fault it. I must admit I did trial Ubuntu and Fedora before settling for Mint as I had similar issues you describe on the first two OS’s.
I understand why folks are drawn to Apple and totally respect that decision. Personally I wouldn’t touch Apple or any Big Tech for that matter with a 10 foot pole.
In your shoes I would try a reinstall but it sounds to me like you already have your mind made up.
One of my friend’s dropper there macbook breaking the screen. We ordered a new screen and an ifixit kit meant for macbooks to help them out. While they were in the middle of disassembly I got out my framework 16. I disassembled it and put it back together while they were figuring out which specialty screwdriver to order because the ifixit kit didn’t have everything they needed.
Having a framework wasn’t going to be perfect.
The screen is too bright in my opinion so I keep it on the lowest setting
chassis flex causes connectivity issue with the keyboard sometimes
it took me 2 hours to replace the liquid metal with PTM that FW kindly sent to me when it was supposed to be a 30min to 1 hour job because the liquid metal was really stuck on and a total mess.
NixOS being really niche causing all sorts of goofy issues here and there. But that’s just NixOS being NixOS.
You gain some freedoms with the FW16, you lose some time to troubleshooting.
Its important to look at the end goals of what you want from a computer.
I have a 128GB / 4TB Framework 13 that, depending on how you value the recycled parts (it started as a 12th gen Intel), cost me around $1600-$2200. It’s awesome at running virtualization and cranking through CI tasks entirely on ramdisk.
A similarly spec’d Macbook is $5700.
The Macbook would have much better battery life, and much better audio&screen, but I don’t think it would be much faster.
So I’m happy with this purchase, especially given the price difference. But I seriously envy the Mac’s instant-wake and full day of battery.
Last time my family had Apple tech was when my wife went through three MacBooks in two years because of dust in the “Butterfly” keyboard. Conveniently they only started replacing them through warranty after some years. Apple is known for this behavior, and I don’t want to support it even if it means having inferior experience.
Edit: But I have a collectible which says “F**k Apple” framed and hanging on a wall in my apartment, so maybe don’t listen to me much
After several problems getting things repaired at Apple’s “Genius” Bar, and getting charged out the a$$ for repairs because they won’t allow anyone else to repair their hardware, I won’t have anything to do with them if I have any choice. It’s a predatory company, based entirely on corporate greed at this point, and I prefer not to volunteer as the main course.
(@Gmanny, my mother does needlepoint, and is always asking me what I’d like as a gift. Maybe I’ll ask for a sampler based on your collectible… )
I’ve built and repaired my own desktops since I was a kid (a LONG time ago now!), and it has always bugged me that as soon as anything went wrong with a laptop, you basically had to throw it away and buy a new one. Framework lets me configure and repair my laptop with the same ease that I do my desktop, which counts for a LOT. That I haven’t needed to repair it yet is icing on the cake.
I’ve thought about switching to a Mac. However, I keep having to use software that requires Windows. Virtualization is an option, but some of the software I use is very picky and I can’t risk not being able to do work for some minor convenience upgrades.
I haven’t had too many problems with my Framework 16. But it is heavy and a little buggy sometimes.
I like MacBook hardware but I don’t like Apple. I don’t believe I’ll move away from Framework in the forseeable future.
I do have a work iPhone. I barely keep it charged and rarely keep it on me.
I paid a (relatively) healthy chunk of change for my FW16 but haven’t had any real problems with it/it’s been doing a banger job for work and life purposes.
I’ve also had fun with stuff like swapping in the ptm pad and installing new RAM, SSDs, and a wifi card.
I use Linux and I really like my frameworks but I still have to recommend macbooks to family and friends who do not want to learn Linux. MacOS isn’t perfect and it isn’t something I would ever use due to it not being open source but it is significantly better than Windows for basic desktop use and doesn’t get in your way as much as windows.
I currently use an MBP for work. I’m on the fence about what I would prefer, but I tend to lean away from MacBooks.
Things I like about MacBooks:
They combine a processor design that has a low power mode with an operating system designed to take advantage of it. Great battery life.
The screens have nice color.
The trackpad is lovely.
So far, connecting external displays is always smooth.
Very few WiFi or Bluetooth problems.
Suspend is so nice.
The hinges, general finish and device polish are all very nice.
It’s very easy to copy and paste into the terminal.
Great fingerprint reader.
Some gestures are useful.
However, there are things I dislike:
I don’t like the extra keys. While I appreciate the versatility of having Command, Control and Option, it’s harder for my muscle memory.
I don’t like its window management. It can now tile, but it’s harder than on other devices.
There are certain things about the OS I cannot change. For example, I was helping a dyslexic friend with macOS accessibility features, and you can’t change the UI font.
Gatekeeper is fine… until it’s an annoyance.
I still have USB-A devices.
The dock gives me problems. I get worse visibility of running software than on Windows or Linux.
The price to get a good configuration.
Although I can use the device without an Apple ID, there are a few inconveniences when doing so.
The keyboard doesn’t feel super for typing on.
I’m sure there are a few more things, but these come to mind.
In general, I like the polish of the Apple experience, but I always find myself wanting to do a few things more easily than Apple lets me do. Would I use a MacBook if given one? Absolutely. Would it be my first choice? No, because I like doing things macOS likes less.
Not gonna diminish any negative experiences with the FW16 that would make someone consider alternatives, but personally I would never migrate to any Apple hardware. Apple’s business model of keeping a closed and highly controlled ecosystem is extremely exploitative and keeps you paying ridiculous prices for accessories that are intentionally built with poor quality to make you buy more of them during the lifetime of the product. I understand the appeal of a more controlled environment in theory, but in practice I want to be the one in control of my device and what I can and cannot do on it. That goes contrary to Apple’s philosophy. As much as Microsoft is trying to tighten the screws on that, the experience is still better on Windows and eventually I’ll migrate to Linux as a host OS when I have the time to figure out running a virtual machine with direct hardware access to the GPU. I don’t think most Linux distros are that great, and there’s a whole mess of complaints I have and see from others about the stuff that makes up most distros, but at least I’ll be able to decide how much I want to deal with broken stuff and when to roll back changes that break my workflows.
There’s also just ethical differences which I don’t find a way to reconcile. I don’t deny the Apple silicon and other things are attractive, I just don’t think those things outweigh the very many negative points of owning and using an Apple product.
I switched from Apple to Framework back when I got my Batch 1 FW13 however many years ago that was
Macbooks can be great. Certain generations are trash, but at least you get to choose your hardware.
Unfortunately, Mac OS often gets worse, for long periods of time, and you do not have so much choice to avoid it. And it may work just fine on new hardware so they don’t care to fix it.
My 2015 MBP works great today (for its new owner), but for over a year, it suffered from poor battery life from a Mac OS update. The battery would discharge in less than an hour, making it unusable away from a wall outlet. Eventually, Apple pushed out a new update to solve the issue. But despite having essentially limitless resources, they really didn’t do any better with the issue than tiny Framework has with their firmware challenges.
Of course, some people wasted money on getting a new MBP or multiple, fruitless battery replacements during this period, so Apple actually made money by leaving the problem to fester… (this was right around when my FW13 was delivered)
Now that I have had my FW16 for a while, I couldn’t go back. I recently swapped my dgpu out for the dual M2 expansion module setup so I’ve got a 2x4tb mirrored zfs storage pool for all my important projects, separate from my Windows and Ubuntu OS drives. How am I supposed to replicate that with a MBP? It’s literally impossible.
I have a few laptops, I can’t stop myself. But what I use 95% of the time is a macbook pro. People have their reasons for liking or disliking them, I’ve had mine as well. But when it comes down to it, I cant do everything with a single computer. All my development takes place in NixOS via ssh. The sad truth - two reasons I like the macbook better. 3 finger drag and drop, and being able to rely on a single set of keys for copy and paste. The rest is pretty interchangeable. If the Cosmic DE could solve those two things, I’d switch to it. Although my favorite linux copy manager gets broken with wayland…
My main fear with my Computer was, that it could just die. This happened to the 2,4k € gaming laptop of my best friend. Motherboard died, nothing he could do except buying a whole new laptop/computer.
I really wanted a laptop to be able to work/game while traveling. But after what had happened to my friends laptop, I never would’ve thought about getting any costly laptop at all.
Then framework came along and fixed the one thing I feared: One broken part requiring a whole new laptop.
Now I can rest assured, that if anything breaks, I can replace it without having to pay 2,5k € for a whole new laptop. Worst case I need to spend ~800€ for a new graphics card module.
Although I have that fear too - what if … but in reality, I’ve not had a broke laptop yet. This macbook is my 9th or 10th laptop, and I’ve not broke one, needed to repair one, or anything hardware wise (driver issues aside). They’re generally tough. But I probably baby mine. Right now I have 2 FW13s, a FW16, a System76 Lemur pro, and a Macbook pro. I have issues. But the two FW13’s are now in the cooler master cases, so I’ll sell the two chassis since I won’t use them.
Honestly, apart from the battery life, I see no practical advantage to a MacBook.
I’m usually connected to an external monitor both at work and at home using a USB-C with power delivery. However, I am comfortable working with the new 2.8k screen if I need to with some scaling whenever necessary.
For calls, I usually use earphones when away from home and headphones at home. I barely ever use the built-in speakers, unless I’m alone in a quite place.
The way I see it, even if MacBook speakers and screen are undebatably of better quality, they will never replace external displays and earphones/headphones for my daily work.
From a consumer PoV, the advantage of Apple hardware is that they only sell a handful of models, but millions of them, so they are well-understood after a few months. The butterfly keyboards were a disaster, but conversely, everybody seems to agree that the ARM Macs are rock-solid and some are very competitively priced, and you are exceedingly unlikely to buy a lemon if you stick to those (especially MacBook Air M1, Mac Mini M4).
Have you seen that there was a recent libinput commit for this? I wouldn’t know how to try it out though. Making sure you're not a bot!
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