I can understand why some are being dramatic…one beta release in a year for the 12th gen Intel boards, does not cut it. It is a problem, and I think some may believe that by being dramatic it might actually get the attention it needs. I don’t believe that is the case, but yes continued commenting on having issues with the current state of things is the only outlet customers have left to voice their displeasure with the situation.
None of which are remotely exploitable without extended direct access, so not a huge deal, but yes it absolutely should be taken care of.
Folks, if you have specific, detailed questions you’d like answered about BIOS updates, list them and I will ask the appropriate team.
That said, the linked thread I said I did not forsee a feature update to BIOS happening on that generation is was not stated as fact. It was my assumption. I did not state this as a done deal, that is an engineering question.
I should have been clearer on this. But the issue on that thread was a feature request.
Now, if we can focus on specific concerns, please list them and I will ask the appropriate team for clarification.
If you are experiencing a specific error or another related issue, feel free to open a ticket.
Getting the latest CVE security updates in a timely fashion.
Getting support for the new higher capacity battery.
Getting support for the full power savings functionality mentioned with the HDMI rework mod and/or new DisplayPort firmware.
I personally care more about that last one (and any other potential bug fixes or stability fixes), as that is likely to be the most impactful for my use-case.
To me, the thermal throttling issues are by far my #1 issue, and make the laptop pretty much useless to me for gaming (even light/old gaming; think Stellaris or Age of Empires II). Framework support has been unable to help, even after shipping me a new mainboard. It’s pretty clear to me that this is a firmware issue (or something even lower level if the firmware isn’t responsible).
Been following this for potential fixes with USB-C power negotiation under CPU load changes.
Many threads about the laptop randomly charging/discharging when the CPU spins up seem to nebulously lead to this one, but there’s no clear answer if the BIOS update is expected to fix.
This class of bugs seems to make usb-c useless if plugged into anything that can provide power (hub/monitor), even if it’s also plugged into an official power brick from another usb-c port.
Just replied there, let’s keep that on that thread. Issues an fixes already in that thread need to remain there or we end up with a spider web of mismatched threads.
If you have specific questions, as in security updates or features found on 12th gen, but not 11th, please list your questions as others have done here.
For issues found on other threads, please update your experience or issue there on those affected threads to keep this thread from going off the rails with side-topics.
Bug or issues experienced, please keep those to their original threads as they may have been resolved for the original op(s). That is to be determined on the existing thread.
I did have a specific question on if the 12th gen BIOS update is expected to fix any problems with USB-C power negotiation. I did also waste two hours of my time just yesterday reading other threads before coming to this issue.
On your recommendation I also just posted in another random thread for what it’s worth, but please don’t throw away everything I ask here.
Just trying to keep things in columns we can follow, track, etc. I appreciate you putting it in a USB-C power thread so we can keep things in some resemblance of order for tracking.
A timeline for the BIOS update + Security fixes(Eight+ months in works now, I would like to not keep using beta BIOS forever)
Any work being done for stabilizing LVFS/Fwupd support for linux.
Also a suggestion for the BIOS team, In future BIOS revisions, maybe, security updates and feature updates should be shipped separately, especially for critical security vulnerabilities. Many people frustrated in this thread, are due to lack of security fixes disclosed almost 1 year ago and they are not as comfortable to running beta software.
I basically have the same issues, moving off of a Beta release BIOS would be nice. While I don’t have pressing security concerns, receving security patches to BIOS in a timely manner should be a real goal, and yes they should be separate from feature upgrades. The non-Beta BIOS is needed to actually live up to the basics like Thunderbolt 4 certifcation. What is the lifecycle support for each motherboard? It should be 5-7 years like larger companies offer, yes I know Framework is small, but now you are selling to businesses and I can tell you 1 Beta BIOS a year will get you kicked right off the list of potential purchases.
In short, like many other users I want to see a real plan for this, not the radio silence, or the “well you know Insyde is slow”…once again I get that Framework is growing, it has a lot of priorities, but this is one of those items that is fundamental and should not be a backburner item. Also it becomes more and more obvious that Coreboot would likely be a better solution, than relying on an apparently unresponsive third-party vendor.
Additionally, I would like to see a commitment to some timeline for a stable release. For many issues, like the expansion card power consumption it has been suggested to try out the beta. Fortunately, I needed my laptop as it is my daily driver and I did not want to deal with unstable software on that.
If I had upgraded I would now be stuck, as downgrading would basically make my laptop useless for me. As a user, if I take the time & risk to test a beta version, I would like to see a commitment to eventually releasing a stable version. Otherwise, I would have been forced to buy another laptop and my money would be wasted.
That said, with the persisting high risk CVEs, I will have to reconsider using the framework as my daily driver for work. And that is after not even a year of use… I guess it is clear that an upgrade is out of question with the current state of software support. Even buying a non-repairable laptop (that will usually give me at least 4 years of use) would be more environment friendly, cheaper & more reliable.
Additionally (on a more opinionated side), you still claim the Laptop supports Thunderbolt. IMO, this is very borderline to misleading advertisement. Without that (IMO unusable) beta version, the laptop does not have a Thunderbolt certification, still you list it as a feature. I have personally experienced cases where thunderbolt (4 especially) does not work reliably on 3.05.
Hello @Matt_Hartley !
I’m glad you came here to this thread to speak for Framework and take up our concerns. Thank you very much for that!
It would also be important for me to hear a bit more concrete timeframe for further development and -if it can’t be met- to get renewed feedback on how the plan is changing and moving forward.
The twice hinted at internal test versions that then no one ever spoke of again were the most frustrating experience for me that really made me doubt your commitment to support because of the buggy beta version that has been unchanged for 8 months.
Beyond that, and more important I’m also interested in patching the security holes, the support for your larger battery and I would like to know what else will be addressed with a new version.
The Thunderbolt certification isn’t that important to me personally, but in that regard I’m probably only one of a few…
Finally, it would be important to know for how long you will support each board generation (EOL). With either full or security-only updates.
Again, thanks for caring here now and taking the questions and concerns of the community. The devices you offer are good, and I really like your sustainable approach, but in terms of bios support and communication, there is still a lot of room for improvement.
This was promised in Nov. 2022 to be in the 3.06 bios update were dose it stand at this point.
“We’re currently preparing our 12th Gen 3.06 firmware update for release that contains the updates for Thunderbolt 4, a range of security fixes, and improvements in both suspend and active battery life. We’ll share more on that last part in an upcoming blog post. We’ll provide instructions on how to update firmware for both Windows and Linux. For the Chromebook Edition , firmware updates happen automatically through ChromeOS system updates. For 11th Gen systems, we also have a firmware update in progress to bring in the security updates and power consumption improvements, but not retroactively certify Thunderbolt (there are some test cases we don’t believe we can resolve on that generation, unfortunately).”