I couldn’t agree more. I got the Framework to replace a 2020 HP Envy x360 with the expectation that it would be more sustainable. The HP has received 13 released BIOS updates (with the latest just a few months ago), the Framework - none. Being able to repair/upgrade hardware is wonderful, but it’s only part of the sustainability equation. To say I’m disillusioned at this point would be an understatment.
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I’ve tried very hard to remain patient and not rant post.
but…
This is utterly ridiculous.
Framework would be better off just announcing EOL for 12th gen boards than continue making promises that they clearly can’t uphold.
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EOL was effectively December of last year when the standard 90 day window to patch known vulnerabilities was missed.
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Well, I already used the term “ridiculous” some month ago to voice my growing dissatisfaction. But after the Framework team joined this discussion and signalled to take our concerns and questions serious and especially after @nrp lined out Frameworks plan for future Bios development I really thought, everything would get better.
Unfortunately this was two month ago and since then we have not heard anything from an official since.
It is okay for me, that they Framework cannot provide an update every two weeks, but every two month should be possible, especially for a project that is more than just a little overdue.
Even if it takes longer it might be a good idea to tell us what is an realistic time frame for a new beta release and if that ETA is missed give us a new one and perhaps an explanation of what happened. Framework, please communicate with us!
In the current situation I have postponed further purchases (a matte screen for my 12th Gen as well as a new 13th Gen for a relative), because I am simply unsure (and disappointed) about what is happening here.
Cynically speaking, although I still hope that’s not the reason: Framework doesn’t make money by supporting bought products, they make money by selling new products with the promise of sustainability (which also includes bios updates)…
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2 years in Europe. (or huh, patch window?)
Hi folks,
Just a note that we have not forgotten about you. At this time, this last post from Nirav outlines the process we’ll use when we’re ready.
We genuinely appreciate your patience as we are a small team of rock stars undertaking a herculean effort as we make amazing products.
Speaking for myself, I appreciate your perspective on this. Yes, I absolutely hear you and no, we’re not ignoring you. When I have an update, you will see it here. This will be the go to thread.
Thanks everyone.
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Hey @Matt_Hartley thanks for the update. Do you have answers to my questions from August yet?
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I’ll ping ya there. 
- DM’d ya. The idea here is to keep these threads on focus - releases and beta testing. Thanks
All,
This will be the last reply on this thread until we have an update.
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Not the support or warranty period. The standard grace period given by security researchers to vendors before a vulnerability is publicly disclosed whether it’s been patched or not is 90 days.
(This is a compromise between, on one hand, immediate full disclosure, which is fair but also sends everybody scrambling to patch and gets users harmed in the meantime; and, on the other hand, allowing the vendor to dictate the disclosure timeline, which historically had by many of them been taken as license to extend it indefinitely for literal years. Declaring a deadline in advance preempts accusations of extortion. The specific value is largely arbitrary, of course, but this one is reasonable and commonly accepted.)
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Does “when we’re ready” mean the dedicated supplier post-launch support team that Nirav described two months ago is in place and working on the update but the update isn’t ready, or does it mean resources to work this aren’t even in place yet (as alluded to by the “small team” comment)?
I feel bad ranting about this issue. I love the Framework hardware and the ethos it embodies. I still believe that sustainability is more than just a marketing ploy to the Framework team. But inaction has challenged that perception to the point where I’m seriously on the verge of selling my Framework and finding a better supported and/or more open alternative.
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I feel the same. But for me it is not just inaction, but also lack of communication and the communication style.
There was no clarification whether the contract is only negotiated or is already in-place. Since nothing happened in the last 2 months, I have the impression the wording was ambiguous by intention.
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I’m still on BIOS 3.04 - now that we are talking about testing 3.08, is there anything in between that I should have updated to?
I remember 3.06 got scrapped, but now I’m wondering if I just overlooked 3.07 because I stopped visiting this thread often.
Im sorry to tell you, but noone is talking about testing 3.08.
There is no 3.07.
3.06 is still the lastest available Beta BIOS and we got no ETA for a new version
There has only been a 3.06 version made available (for 12th gen intel models), as a beta. The installation is apparently a bit unreliable, and un-reversable, may require some perseverance - view reports above. There was a vague report from a framework employee of a later version, in early summer, but the EFI/linux installer for it reportedly didn’t work, and I’m guessing it had other issues, because it was never made available. It seems like attempts have been made, but they just can’t get a “good enough” release together, so far.
I don’t own a 12th gen intel model, but I started browsing the forums and found this thread shortly before I received my AMD model that I pre-ordered in the spring. I like it, and I still love Framework, but man, this firmware release situation sucks, it truly does.
For what it’s worth: work on the 13" AMD model, and the 16" model, started before this 3.06 beta firmware for the 12th gen intel was released. I’m guessing that it was really not economically viable, for a startup like Framework, to pause that release train in order to focus on intel 12th gen firmware.
Anyway, my sincere hope (and I still do have hope) is that Framework have learned the lesson that firmware is very difficult and expensive. Theoretically, it should be easier than hardware, but in practice, not really. I’ve worked on firmware before, and I’ve worked on server-side data processing for a small division of a big hardware company, that is kinda infamous for bad software (but great hardware), and I’ve reviewed firmware written by teams in asia … and I really could rant for hours. But I think the take-away is that, hardware companies know that the hardware has to be validated before production, every little trace has to have been worked on or reviewed by a hardware engineer that truly knows their s***. But software, we can just patch it up and fix it later! The team is following industry-standard best-practices! Well now you know, not so easy, you might actually have a problem harder to fix than the entire hardware design, anything is possible. It will just take a while longer to get teams spun-up, they should have started 18 months ago, but alas …
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The “we’re a scrappy startup without the resources to maintain firmware” argument isn’t acceptable. They don’t tell customers with hardware warranty issues “We’re busy with the Framework 16 right now - we’ll get back to you in a year or two.” Full lifecycle support (hardware and firmware) should be factored into the business plan from the beginning. An understandable oversight on the 11th gen? OK, correct it on the 12th gen. That obviously didn’t happen and there’s no evidence that 13th gen/AMD are any different (anyone seen status, or even acknowledgement, on a LogoFail fix for 13th gen/AMD?).
Is it difficult/expensive? Perhaps. It’s more difficult/expensive when choices are made to rely exclusively on proprietary 3rd party firmware. Getting a Framework with BootGuard disabled isn’t possible, so the community is completely locked out of the process. If CoreBoot was even an option on the Framework (I’m not advocating for it to be default, just an option) we would have an active firmware development community that would cost Framework almost nothing.
I have been willing to cut Framework some slack because they are a small company challenging some bad industry practices. But the lack or openness on firmware support (despite the fact that they can send me weekly spam on how great the Framework 16 design is) has exhausted my patience.
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Can things be improved? Sure. If you feel that a different vendor is more fitting for you, vote with your feet. The points are legitimate, but the incessant bitching is too much. You signed up with a startup, deal with it or move on.
Have a good day.
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There has been an acknowledgement, yes:
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Are the accounts on here that just say - “frameworks a startup, deal with it or move on” -just framework employees with seperate accounts?
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Not mine. Is yours?
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INB4 they lock this thread again.
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