Been following this for potential fixes with USB-C power negotiation under CPU load changes.
Many threads about the laptop randomly charging/discharging when the CPU spins up seem to nebulously lead to this one, but there’s no clear answer if the BIOS update is expected to fix.
This class of bugs seems to make usb-c useless if plugged into anything that can provide power (hub/monitor), even if it’s also plugged into an official power brick from another usb-c port.
Thank you.
For your issue, please see [RESPONDED] Excessive CPU thermal(?) throttling on 12th-gen - #13 by Matt_Hartley
Just replied there, let’s keep that on that thread. Issues an fixes already in that thread need to remain there or we end up with a spider web of mismatched threads.
If you have specific questions, as in security updates or features found on 12th gen, but not 11th, please list your questions as others have done here.
For issues found on other threads, please update your experience or issue there on those affected threads to keep this thread from going off the rails with side-topics.
Again, to keep this thread open:
Security and desired feature questions are welcome. Per: 12th Gen Intel Core BIOS 3.06 Beta - #298
Bug or issues experienced, please keep those to their original threads as they may have been resolved for the original op(s). That is to be determined on the existing thread.
I did have a specific question on if the 12th gen BIOS update is expected to fix any problems with USB-C power negotiation. I did also waste two hours of my time just yesterday reading other threads before coming to this issue.
On your recommendation I also just posted in another random thread for what it’s worth, but please don’t throw away everything I ask here.
Just trying to keep things in columns we can follow, track, etc. I appreciate you putting it in a USB-C power thread so we can keep things in some resemblance of order for tracking.
I only have two questions for the moment.
Also a suggestion for the BIOS team, In future BIOS revisions, maybe, security updates and feature updates should be shipped separately, especially for critical security vulnerabilities. Many people frustrated in this thread, are due to lack of security fixes disclosed almost 1 year ago and they are not as comfortable to running beta software.
Thus far, I have security/update questions from:
Cipher, BusyBoredom, serisman.
I will work on reaching out to engineering with these questions.
Much like how Google promises X years of updates for a pixel phone, what is the support window for security and features on BIOSes from Framework?
I basically have the same issues, moving off of a Beta release BIOS would be nice. While I don’t have pressing security concerns, receving security patches to BIOS in a timely manner should be a real goal, and yes they should be separate from feature upgrades. The non-Beta BIOS is needed to actually live up to the basics like Thunderbolt 4 certifcation. What is the lifecycle support for each motherboard? It should be 5-7 years like larger companies offer, yes I know Framework is small, but now you are selling to businesses and I can tell you 1 Beta BIOS a year will get you kicked right off the list of potential purchases.
In short, like many other users I want to see a real plan for this, not the radio silence, or the “well you know Insyde is slow”…once again I get that Framework is growing, it has a lot of priorities, but this is one of those items that is fundamental and should not be a backburner item. Also it becomes more and more obvious that Coreboot would likely be a better solution, than relying on an apparently unresponsive third-party vendor.
Additionally, I would like to see a commitment to some timeline for a stable release. For many issues, like the expansion card power consumption it has been suggested to try out the beta. Fortunately, I needed my laptop as it is my daily driver and I did not want to deal with unstable software on that.
If I had upgraded I would now be stuck, as downgrading would basically make my laptop useless for me. As a user, if I take the time & risk to test a beta version, I would like to see a commitment to eventually releasing a stable version. Otherwise, I would have been forced to buy another laptop and my money would be wasted.
That said, with the persisting high risk CVEs, I will have to reconsider using the framework as my daily driver for work. And that is after not even a year of use… I guess it is clear that an upgrade is out of question with the current state of software support. Even buying a non-repairable laptop (that will usually give me at least 4 years of use) would be more environment friendly, cheaper & more reliable.
Additionally (on a more opinionated side), you still claim the Laptop supports Thunderbolt. IMO, this is very borderline to misleading advertisement. Without that (IMO unusable) beta version, the laptop does not have a Thunderbolt certification, still you list it as a feature. I have personally experienced cases where thunderbolt (4 especially) does not work reliably on 3.05.
Hello @Matt_Hartley !
I’m glad you came here to this thread to speak for Framework and take up our concerns. Thank you very much for that!
It would also be important for me to hear a bit more concrete timeframe for further development and -if it can’t be met- to get renewed feedback on how the plan is changing and moving forward.
The twice hinted at internal test versions that then no one ever spoke of again were the most frustrating experience for me that really made me doubt your commitment to support because of the buggy beta version that has been unchanged for 8 months.
Beyond that, and more important I’m also interested in patching the security holes, the support for your larger battery and I would like to know what else will be addressed with a new version.
The Thunderbolt certification isn’t that important to me personally, but in that regard I’m probably only one of a few…
Finally, it would be important to know for how long you will support each board generation (EOL). With either full or security-only updates.
Again, thanks for caring here now and taking the questions and concerns of the community. The devices you offer are good, and I really like your sustainable approach, but in terms of bios support and communication, there is still a lot of room for improvement.
This was promised in Nov. 2022 to be in the 3.06 bios update were dose it stand at this point.
“We’re currently preparing our 12th Gen 3.06 firmware update for release that contains the updates for Thunderbolt 4, a range of security fixes, and improvements in both suspend and active battery life. We’ll share more on that last part in an upcoming blog post. We’ll provide instructions on how to update firmware for both Windows and Linux. For the Chromebook Edition , firmware updates happen automatically through ChromeOS system updates. For 11th Gen systems, we also have a firmware update in progress to bring in the security updates and power consumption improvements, but not retroactively certify Thunderbolt (there are some test cases we don’t believe we can resolve on that generation, unfortunately).”
@Paul_Langford
Yes, that is what should be included as of November 2022. But nine months have passed since then, and new problems may have occurred, and most importantly, the new, larger batteries have been released. Will they be addressed here or in a following release?
I also care about them.
Hello Matt,
I got two as well:
Thanks and take care!
I’m more interested in more advanced option for the BIOS being exposed.
NRP posted an update for 11th gen BIOS and mentioned that the entire BIOS release process is being overhauled, I imagine it will affect 12th gen as well when that process gets put into place.
Copying in the response from the 11th Gen thread below. The detail on the 12th Gen firmware update is similar. The actual firmware itself is complete, but preparing the updaters for both Windows and Linux has been slow and challenging. This is in part because of the number of individual firmwares across the system that correspond to each other that are being updated together, which is more difficult than an Embedded Controller-only or UEFI-only update.
Just a note that we are in release preparation for the next BIOS release at the moment for 11th Gen. We do have the Windows version of the next Beta release currently, but we’ve been delayed on preparing the Linux version of it. Our goal is to always be able to release Windows and Linux versions simultaneously.
Starting with this release and going forward, we are revamping our BIOS release process overall. Our mission is focused on product longevity, and ongoing software support is a key part of that.
We’ll be sharing more detail on this, but some of the changes will include:
- When we launch a Beta, we’ll be sharing the target schedule for promotion from Beta to final release. Our default schedule will be two weeks. If we see feedback from the community around new regressions or other issues with the release, we’ll determine whether we need additional time in Beta or a follow on release before final. In each case, we’ll make sure to communicate any schedule changes.
- We’re working with our upstream suppliers on getting dedicated staffing into place for sustaining software development. This means we’ll be able to resolve some of the delays we’ve had thus far in timely BIOS releases. Note that with this, we’ll have dedicated support in place within Framework, with the upstream supplier to us (Compal), and the upstream supplier to them (Insyde). However, there will still be suppliers further upstream of that (e.g. Intel or other silicon vendors) that we have less visibility or control over.