Does no updates for an android phone make it okay, or right? No. It is friggin wrong your phone absolutely should get updates, and for a hell of a lot longer than 2 years. If you simply roll over and accept that, then that is on you. Fortunately there are options.
Yes they are working on it, and there should be no stigma asking what is going on with the work. I have had my 12th gen for almost a year, and 3.06 Beta was released around the time I bought it. Coming from Thinkpads where I could expect security patches every three months or so for about seven yearsā¦I donāt expect that level of service but maybe two a year, especially now that they are selling to businesses directly.
I donāt care how big or small the firm is. They literally have three actively sold products with two more entering now. Supporting your product is a basic business requirement. I have no problem with it taking time, to get there. Personally I am tired of people making excuses, and trying to bully other owners into silence. I want to know, and it really is none of your business if I ask. Do you work for Framework? If the answer is no, and you have
nothing productive to add i.e. answer the questionā¦then simply move along.
If you are okay with running an insecure BIOS/UEFI that is entirely your business, just like if i have a security concern that is my business, and trying to belittle people who care is just another form of bullying, and again I am tired of some users getting a pass for it.
TLDR: Stop trying to bully people into silence who just want an update from someone who actually works for Framework. You donāt have answers, and just have criticisms of people asking, simply ignore the thread and move along.
As you may be aware of by now, Frameworkās policy regarding communication is they will only post something if they have new information or something to provide. Also, itās the weekend so donāt expect anything soon.
Understood. As you can see I donāt/wonāt tolerate it. There should be no stigma with politely asking a question about a product you boughtā¦on a product oriented forumā¦hosted by the manufacturer of said product.
Iām not trying to bully you. This has been mentioned multiple times by official Framework staff and you can find their responses above. Your tone is quite combative. Itās fine to be frustrated by something but itās not proper to accuse people of something they havenāt done.
This thread has gotten out of control and since no one can treat anyone else with respect, weāll be temporarily closing it.
We have no new information at this time. Once we do, we will reopen this thread.
(Updated Oct 11th 2023 by @Matt_Hartley) We closed this thread because it was going no where. When we have an update and yes, folks, weāre working on it - we will post it.
Iāve discussed this with Nirav, and while weāll be reopening this thread, Iām going to make this very clear. Do NOT send our volunteer moderators PMs complaining about company decisions. I authorized the locking of this thread as it was devolving into personal attacks, and combative/aggressive responses.
Development resources are shared across all of our products. We just recently released the Framework Laptop 13 (11th Gen Intel Core) updates and weāve been heads down working on BIOS updates for Framework Laptop 13 (AMD Ryzen 7040 Series) as those BIOS updates were required for flashing manufactured product holding up our manufacturing partner (which weāve been very transparent about in emails to early batches and blog posts). Weāre working on Framework Laptop 13 (12th Gen Intel Core) and weāll provide an update once we have the BIOS ready for Community testing after weāve put it through its paces internally. Thereās still work to be done and weāre working to improve the software release pipeline.
If this thread goes off the rails again, it will be locked. Please follow the Community Guidelines and keep conversations civil. Any violations of the established guidelines will result in warnings and/or bans, depending on the severity of the infraction.
Thanks for the update and opening this backup. I do understand the small dev team and there are priorities. I would like to make a suggestion just to help out people with the 12th gen that framework could do is put out biweekly updates on where the status is. Even if it is just we are working on it.
The communication on the AMD batch 1 and the bios is great, I was a part of that batch. My 12th gen seemed to be forgotten.
Is there a stance on end of sale or end of support of the products?
While there is a natural life cycle of products. A lot of us have had bad experience with companies releasing a product and then not updating its firmware ever.
While I am not stating that is what is happening here. The optics of announcing a release of a firmware about one year ago and not having it release gives a similar vibe.
A commitment to support for a particular period of time may help on this matter. In addition it will help us know the sustainability of your team to handle future product lineups. As the product lineup grows that support eventually will get the axe for older products freeing up resources for newer ones.
Might I make a suggestion from a business perspective? As someone who works in the software insustry professionally, missed targets can only be bottlenecked by under-employing for so long.
We get it...
Framework is a small company and frankly we love you for it.
But...
It is completely reasonable to assume that there is something more fundamentally blocking thisā¦ something technical albeit a software problem that the current team canāt solve (i.e. under or mis- employing) or a more fundamental design (hardware/implementation) flaw in the 12th gen boards that makes this either much more difficult or as worst case, impossibleā¦perhaps even related to the thunderbolt certification that was promised?
I certainly hope not...
If there truly is a technical challenge that the current team is just having difficulty solving (and that is truly okayā¦ Computers are frankly hard things to get right. We are all human), please know that you have a massive community of brilliant people who would love to help (maybe even pro bono in the spirit of openness and repairability). Reach out, get those NDAs signed and letās get this doneā¦assuming it can.
If it can't, then just tell us already...
Even if that means admitting to some fundamental flaw that requires a complete board rework to get right, then just please rip the band-aid off. We get it. Truly wec do. Companies in this period of growth are trying to balance cash flow across current and future products, and the blast radius of such a flaw is just too large for Framework to just swallow out of the kindness of their hearts.
Future products are always at stake....
My point here is transparency really is the key here. There could be more transparencyā¦even going as far as bringing in private contractors to help.
IF there is such a flaw and itās the worst case, it would be a really big problem.
This would basically mean that theyāve sent out a defective product to customers and (at least here in the EU) they have to take care of that (at least in the first 2 years after buying). Either by fixing it, replacing the unit (for free) or by paying back the money.
They also could just hold still, wait until these 2 years are over and hope nobody finds it.
Well, regardless of how I wrap my head around this hypothetical scenario, it doesnāt look good at all.
Well I am happy the thread is reopened, and apologize for my contributions to getting it closed.
That being said, āmeaningful updatesā are great when the period of time in question between a beta and a stable release is reasonable. Once that time span has passed expect people to ask publically, and once another reasonable amount of time has passed expect some to hit support asking this question.
The idea behind regular ātouching baseā commentary, whether that update is meaningful, or just a we are still working on it and making progress it is better than radio silence. All your customers want is some communication, if you force them to use the support framework for less meaningful questionsā¦that is on you. I wonāt be hitting up support, but I would not expect that to be the norm. In my eyes you can spend 15 minutes a month crafting a quick hey this is where we are at on this item or have an indeterminate number of customers essentially wasting your time more directly with support questions ĀÆ_(ć)_/ĀÆ
I, for one, would love if people would just stop commenting on this ticket, because this keeps popping up in my āunreadā list, often without meaningful content other than āyouāre doing this wrongā.
If anything, maybe @moderators could split up those comments in a different thread altogether, so that people that need to vent about how communication is happening around this issue go somewhere else while us people that are actually patiently waiting for actual updates from upstream can separate wheat from the chaff?
May I suggest moving the thread from tracking to normal, so that you will only get notified when mentioned? Then you can check in once a month or whatever your chosen frequency is. Shutting down discussion/debate/complaining will not change anything and will only make the discontented more discontent and more vocal. I for one do not feel heard and very little in this thread has given me cause for comfort other than knowledge that Framework is introducing some new process to fix this mess.
Then how am I supposed to find out then Framework actually does respond here? Changing the tracking doesnāt change the fact that when I come back to this thread, there are dozen of comments that are not actually relevant to what I am looking for, which is concrete updates about this problem.
I am not suggesting shutting down the discussion here at all: I am suggesting the discussion be moved to the topic it desserves, to actually talk about the actual thing you and many others are worried about instead of burying it in this thread.
There are, by the way, other threads where similar complaints are being made and I think those would be better served by being moved in the own thread.
But what do I know, Iām just a bystander and not a moderator.
