A call on 240w adapter

A 240W PSU is better than a 180W PSU.
We have found that the FW16 can peak at over 450W for very short periods.
The charger IC is set, by the EC, to limit the current it can draw from the PSU, so for the 240W PSU, it limits it to about a figure slightly below 240W.
If the CPU wishes to draw a peak of 450W, it takes the excess from the battery.
But, if the EC had taken account of the peak that the PSU could do. It might be able to peak to 480W for short periods. It could have programmed the charger IC to handle the peaks, and therefore not pull from the battery.
I have a FW16 and a 180W charger. I have not fully decoded the USB PD CC messages from the 180W charger, but if some of them also mention the peaks it can handle, as per a hint from @Ray519, then we might be able to coax the FW16 charger IC to use than information and thus draw from the battery even less.
My decoder is a bit ad-hoc. I capture the trace from an oscilloscope into a .csv file.
I then have written a program to decode that to USB PD CC messages.
Eventually, I will probably add this decode to https://www.ngscopeclient.org/

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Framework should hire you. Then maybe we would get an updated firmware to resolve these issues.

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I stumbled upon a few different posts across the community and even reddit where folks were saying they were running into issues with the 240w (Delta) creating massive studders in performance compared to the 180 from FW and this just boggled my mind. I could understand it wouldnt be 100% efficient, if I recall I think I read somewhere it was just under 90% (88%?). Which of course would not provide peak performance and I’m ok with that. But to studder and actually perform worse was puzzling. Have you experienced that issue at all or just simply the discharge continuing to be an issue? I’m thinking I may just have to run in balanced mode still with it which of course depreciates the performance slightly, but is still tolerable. As long as I am not getting the discharge and performance drop that’s all I am looking for. Also, I agree with @jared_kidd they should hire you and get this fixed :rofl:

Edit: typo

In this GitHub issue I recorded some various comparisons showing the symptoms.

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Good data, thanks for providing. Guess I’ll see what my results will be once I receive mine. Still roughtly 2 weeks out (back order). Wish I was as techy as many of you folks on here. I’ve basically been educating myself for years.

Edit: Funny how the notification posted on that forum says that for 3.05 the power issues were addressed for the 240w :zany_face: apparently not!

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The FW16 180W PSU reports in the USB PD CC messages:
Overload Capabilities: 01
Peak current equals 150% IoC for 1ms @ 5% duty cycle (low current equals 97% IoC for 19ms)
Peak current equals 125% IoC for 2ms @ 10% duty cycle (low current equals 97% IoC for 18ms)
Peak current equals 110% IoC for 10ms @ 50% duty cycle (low current equals 90% IoC for 10ms)

So, IoC is 180W, and FW16 180W PSU should be able to peak to 240W for 1ms.

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Now the question is does the pd controller tell the ec about those? Cause the charge controller can be configured for this kind of peaking behavior (then again I am not sure that works in bypass mode)

@obasav didn’t you also get the 500w ugreen nexode? I also bought one on prime day. Yesterday is swapped in my dgpu and really tested the new power supply and it feels better than the delta. Did you observe the same?

How’s your experience? Is it grounded? What does the ā€œreduce power after tipping overā€ feature actually do?

I don’t have a Ugreen nexode 500W charger, I’m still using the delta 240W PD one. I’ve just been setting the charge control to idle and bypassing the battery charge/fps fluctuations issue that way.

Has anyone got the HKY 240W charger yet? Curious to know if results are any different to the Delta charger.

I saw a post on the subreddit by someone who got it and decided to return it after running some tests. I’m waiting to see more people’s experiences with it before I decide. I really want something other than the Delta, which seems to have many issues, and the Ugreen which is not in the form factor I am looking for.

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Wait the BIOS update! See if they fix this power management issue before buying something

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Agreed! We have all been patiently waiting for a stable BIOS release for quite sometime now. It’s way past due and is very concerning to me at the moment. Hopefully we will have it before the year ends.

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Still quite shocking how I’ve been on 3.05 for most of the time I’ve had my FW16 from batch 17…

What bios update? It’s been 8? months now? I have lost hope. They have completely turtled and are not even letting us know any status anymore. That usually means one of two things. Unfixable, or abandoned.

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I’m still holding on to a shrivel of hope that some of the other projects they have been doing have just taken priority but they will come back to it..

The current power management of the EC has a bug that causes the GPU to draw very little power on 240W but works normally on 180W, an update is supposed to fix it

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They were supposed to release an update to fix the keyboard having power/being active with the lid closed (causing wakeups in bags) but nothing on that either. These type of bug fixes don’t take 8 months if done by any competent developer.

It’s just frustrating to have an obviously incomplete product I paid a lot of money for, not getting completed because the company wants to move on to different products.

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Where is it that we should be getting the most recent updates from FW? Is it here on the community or some other social media platform? I don’t really use social media but would love to hear where they are at with all this. Has anyone tried to tag some of the staff through here?