A call on 240w adapter

well since framework is not making 240w adapter. I am seeking external support. I have contacted a factory that would develop and produce the 240w PD adapter. but I need people to join me to cover the R&D cost. Ideally, the more people the lower the price. currently they are asking for 50000 rmb. which is around 8000 to 9000usd for the project development. i mean if enough people have showed their interest. i will start to negotiate for the thing.

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I haven’t scanned it yet but the Velcro tie that came on my power cord says 240w and has a QR code. I’m wondering if it links to an existing one.

The power cord is 240w. That’s what the label is referring to. (The USB-C spec only allows for 60w, 100w, and 240w cables)

The power brick is 180w.

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The power cord is capable of transporting 5A at 48V, hence 240W. The power brick doesn’t supply 48V but only 36V, resulting in 180W.

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Got it, thanks.

Count me in, I think you should do a kickstarter or indigogo or something. Getting to $10k for something like this would be a breeze in my opinion.

If you can get it made in a clear/transparent plastic I’m happy to pledge $1k to get the ball rolling and get a prototype… Would love it to come from a community sourced project instead of some greedy 3rd party that sells it for $450 because it’s a niche item.

Does the company do only the design work, or are they full service build to manufacture?

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the company is already making 140w PD3.1 charger. their design is, afaik, very compact. so I would consider their design for 240w would be compact as well. they are also doing transparent designs for other products.

I am currently on a trip right now. I will try to do the Kickstart project immediately once I am back in china.
Once again, Huaqiangbei is on its way to save the community.

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an update:
the Kickstarter page is under review right know. it will soon be available.

secondly. the board designer have discussed with me about some of the plans. as for now, the device will be in the form of an adapter. Similar to the first picture I posted before. It will utlise DC to PD conversion to make it work. to avoid energy wastes, the plan is to use a 48v 5a GaN charger that already existed in the market. (Most of them i found was for audiophile device so i can trust their quality?) using a small device that translate the power to PD and transfer it to the laptop.

thirdly, there will be in need of an additional power cord that connect between the conversion device and the brick. we are still discussing what cable is needed for the device.

lastly, 48v is not within the abselute safety limit. so caution is very necessary.

therefore the plan for the selling of such device would be:
only the conversion device;
the conversion device with a 240w brick
(both of them will be sent with a 240w capable cable.)

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Note: we will facilitate communication by keeping this thread open, but we want to make sure everyone is aware that:

  1. This is a third party project. Framework is not involved in any way.

  2. Anyone purchasing this device assumes any financial or other liability and risk. Framework assumes no liability.

Please be careful, the power levels involved here can be dangerous, not only to the laptop but to you and your belongings.

It sounds cool though. Good luck!

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This is pretty cool, but do you think that really only $8k is going to bring a 240W charger to the market? I remember with Omega and how much work they had to do to bring out their charger… and the charger for Framework itself took a little while.
None of the bigger companies have done it yet either, is this just because there aren’t really any devices or is there another reason?
I am not trying to discount what you are doing, I am just asking questions.

Personally I would love a small adapter like this one because this would be something that I could carry around with my Framework without it having power restrictions the way that it does now with a non 180W adapter.

the reason why it is not that expensive is because it is not a standalone charger. it will be an adapter to change the 48v DC to 48v PD. which don’t have the hassle of certification and e.t.c

The 240W capable controller IC has just become available. The proposed adapter is just some device to convert unregulated 48V DC to PD, basically an implementation of the reference design I guess. And probably without CE certification.
You’d still need a 48V power brick plus cables, so space-wise the Framework 180W adapter is still the best deal. Combine it with a really short power cord (e.g. https://www.amazon.de/InLine-16656T-Netzkabel-Notebook-Kupplung/dp/B07BLKG5YT or https://www.amazon.de/RIIEYOCA-Schuko-Stecker-Adapter-Europäischen-Stecker-Right-Angle-EU4-8-C5/dp/B0C8CSGDHH) to save on space, as the original one takes more space than the brick itself.
I have neither of these, they are just some example for space-saving alternatives.

Where would we get the 48V DC to turn it into 48V PD?

https://www.amazon.de/s?k=netzzteil+48V+5A&__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=2VQLAXYNKYW05&sprefix=netzzteil+48v+5a%2Caps%2C98&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

Oh I see, so using a Fosi charger and then converting it to USB-C. I got it now. So definitely not a small charger that provides 240W.
This would be totally suitable for desktop use; if only the laptop itself now worked properly with chargers under 180W (assuming it has a dGPU) and everything would be great.
I would definitely want one of these adapters if I would still have the laptop by that time.

the problem with 180w is that it is not enough for heavy workload.
for example I am experiencing power draw issue when gaming. the temporary solution I am having is to replug the power cord that sort of reset the power state. but I think the real reason is that the power input is not enough for a sustained output, causing it to draw power from the battery and lose the power.
So that is the main reason i want something like this. Besides, the converter won’t be very large, so it can be still remain portable to some extent. But the framework own 180 adapter is still the best compromise of power and portability.

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If we are seeing that some people actually need more that 180W of power.
My question is:

  1. Didn’t FW know this?
  2. There must be a good reason why they only make a 180W power brick. For example, hardly any USB-C cables are spec for 240W power over them so how would the laptop know the cable is good enough before asking for the power?
  3. I guess someone actually testing a 240W power supply over USB-C to the FW16 laptop would at least verify FW statements that is can support it.

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I think framework knows this. the whql driver from Amd will draw higher power than the fw OEM driver. they use this to prevent power loss but it is a bit annoying as you are giving up a some performance.
2
I think it’s because of 48v is higher than the safe limits of 36v. making certification of this difficult (this is just guessing)
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I mean when the prototype of the adapter is made. I can test whether it is possible to charge in 48v. or I can just go to my local repair shop and use their adjustable power supply to check whethet it supports it or not.

For the safety 36v vs 48v. Do you have a URL to a safety document detailing it?
I ask because 48V is already used a lot, Power over Ethernet (POE), Old telephones (POTS), A common DC voltage for computer servers, e-Bikes, Solar panels etc.

Maybe one reason is the length of USB cable allowed to pass 240W. I think its quite short.

ok well from documentation outside china I found that 48 is safe. tho in China there is a standard that 36v and below are considered safe. at least that was the adapter company representative told me.