A few weeks in with the FW13 Pro

Framework Laptop 13
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I’m a few weeks in now with the FW13 Pro configured with the Intel Core Ultra X7 358H (which is a hilarious name for a CPU) and 32GB RAM and wanted to give my thoughts. Strap in, it’s a long waffle.

Setup
This laptop was purchased to replace an Apple MacBook Pro 14 with M2 Max (30-core GPU) with 32GB RAM and 1TB SDD. The reason for replacement was two-fold, I wanted more internal storage but couldn’t… and I don’t really like that Apple is joining most tech firms by forcing the use of their own services and preventing others.

Now, I’m a 25+ year Apple veteran. I first started with the translucent iMac and have been (in my personal life at least) an Apple-only user since then. I’ve even spent 8 years of the last 10 working on projects to provide managed Apple laptops into large enterprises and government organisations, so when I say that I am aware of the Apple Walled Garden, I hope you believe me.

However, one thing a lot of non-Apple folks didn’t seem to understand about the walled garden was that … it was nice. Things worked, and things were helpful and you just didn’t need to leave the walled garden. You didn’t WANT to.

However, since the rise of Apple’s services division, the cost of entry to the walled garden continues to increase… and those of us that are used to being in the garden are now finding that we’re constantly asked for more money to remain there, or told that we cannot leave with our stuff. And that change, I can’t abide.

Anyway, this isn’t supposed to be a topic on Apple… it’s about the Framework 13 Pro, and my enjoyment of something that is clearly MY laptop… and not Frameworks.

I’m going to go through a few of the things I love about this laptop, a few of the things I think are ok, and I few of the things I really don’t understand…

Loves

  1. First - got to give it to the mission. I think the branding from the Team around “this is your laptop, not ours” is spot on, and I’m sold on the repair-ability thing and want to see this drive more change through the tech industry. I’m not expecting my 84 year old Dad to repair his own phone, but I want the option to be able to repair it for him, using reasonably priced parts without stupid vendor lock-ins.
  2. Linux compatibility - this thing is great… I literally pulled the NVME drive from my FW13 Intel 11th Gen laptop and stuffed it into the Pro (after ensuring my install was fully patched) and everything just worked. No tweaking, no adjustment… just working. It was like nothing changed… except that…
  3. Everything was better - Omg, this thing is fast. Panther Lake is a huge improvement in performance over the 11th Gen. The UI (Gnome in my case) is super snappy and most tasks perform quickly without issues. I’ve even been running AI locally on this box (more on this later) and it beats the M2 Max without issue… and when new, that was a £3,700 laptop - this was around 60% of that.
  4. Battery life - as mentioned, I had an FW13 with the Intel 11th Gen and battery life was very disappointing. Both in terms of general runtime but mainly standby performance. I could easily drain the battery from around 85% to flat overnight with it just sitting in my bag and that is not great when I can close my MacBooks lid with all my work open, put it into a drawer, go on a weeks holiday, come back and open the laptop and it still has 40-50% battery life. This new Panther Lake version, while not quite a good as the MacBook, is happily able to sit for the weekend and will still have plenty of battery life on the Monday when I pick it up and want to do something with it. I’d also be comfortable taking it for a days work and just leaving the charger at home. I’ve never said that about an Intel laptop before.
  5. Screen - 9/10… bright, vibrant colours and oodles of real-estate. Love the VRR, looks great with even with games using a lot of upscaling (I use Steam and Gamescope to render at 50% resolution and scale it to fullscreen… looks good and allows the GPU to perform well). I appreciate that it is a touchscreen… but I hate people (including me) touching my screens, so I never use it. Would probably prefer a non-touchscreen option in future.
  6. Trackpad - mostly awesome. I think I’ve heard reviewers refer to this laptop as “about 85% of a MacBook Pro” .. which sounds unfair at first, but Apple have been in this game a long time and have a lot of money. Personally I think Framework being 5 years old and hitting this kind of quality / usability is something they should be proud of. The trackpad is pretty awesome and it’s just a slight over-sensitivity that I think lets it down. It sometimes registers clicks when I mean drags and I had to turn off tap-to-click (I usually do anyway) as it was way too eager.
  7. Gaming - Ok, it’s not going to be threatening Nvidia equipped devices, but with upscaling and moderate settings, this thing is playing Baldur’s Gate 3, Valheim and more easily. It’s better than the Steam Deck and that’s enough for me considering I don’t have to worry about proprietary drivers, mux switches or the like.

Good … but…

  1. Fingerprint sensor - love this, it works out of the box, it’s in a decent position, is pretty responsive and I use it a lot, but I feel that software work is needed to help configure it in linux. I found a github repo about a systemd service that automatically disables it when the lid is closed, as otherwise all your services ask for the fingerprint and force you to wait for it to timeout before continuing to a password prompt… but this would be great if documented by Framework or could be included in a distro package or something to include this and QoL changes to PAM wrapped with a nice UI, that would be super! Hopefully upcoming changes to Gnome will improve it further (removing the issues around using it for first session login)
  2. Speakers - a massive, massive improvement. Huge. But let’s be honest, it was a very low bar. It’s gone from maybe a 3/10 for the old chassis to maybe a 7/10 here. Maybe some easyeffects tuning can help but comparing to the MacBook, there’s still work to be done here.
  3. Expansion ports - as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, these are a clever idea but for me, not a gamechanger. I’d be happy with a fixed port set that was easily repairable using modular internals. Other laptops in this class have more overall ports and I think you’re losing internal space to the oversized slot mechanism that could be used for cooling or a second M.2 slot. Also, why can we get translucent colours in USB-C but nothing else? My brain cannot handle mismatched ports, don’t @ me.
  4. Cooling - one of the things I loved about my MacBook Pro was how quiet it was. If I wasn’t absolutely beasting it, it was silent and this laptop is the same. And even when I am pushing it hard, the fan profile isn’t annoying and distracting like most X86 laptops have been since the dawn of time. However, as I mentioned in the Batch1 thread, this laptop gets WARM. The CPU reports 100deg C regularly during intensive tasks and although the fan sounds nice and whooshy… it isn’t keeping the laptop as cool as I feel it should. Maybe I’m wrong, and it’ll be fine, but it feels warmer than I’d like.
  5. CPU - The Panther Lake chip is great… but as others have pointed out, it is running way below it’s true potential here. With other vendors pushing way more power through this chip, Framework is likely to appear at the bottom of a lot of benchmarks. And given what this thing can do with 35 Watts really makes me want to see what it can do with 45-50… according to Intel it can boost to 80 … which would be insane. (yeah, yeah, diminishing returns is a thing… but still…)

Ok, you know I love you … but …

  1. Chassis - this is going to be a long one. Originally I had this in the section above… but realise I have more to say. I love the new colour, and I love the added stiffness. It feels really quality in the hand and the keyboard is great to type on. Easily as good, if not slightly better for me, than the MacBook keyboard. However, it does pick up fingerprints and marks and I wonder about the longevity of the coating. I tend to use my laptops in ‘clamshell’ mode in a vertical stand, and this appears to be making a mark on the shell that I’m hoping isn’t permanent.
  2. Chassis cont. - There seems to be a design or assembly issue around the right hinge that means the bezel is tricky to fit, and will not stay put. Mine lifts if I push the screen back, though it does clip back in on closing.
  3. Chassis cont. - The Pro moniker. I think this is a marketing mistake if honest. It’s an improvement, sure. A big one. But given the interchangeability between FW13 and FW13 Pro, it shows that basically it’s a quality tag rather than performance one. I can have a the new Pro chassis with the original screen and an 11th Gen mainboard… and it’s still a Pro? Or if I put my new Panther Lake board into my old FW13 chassis, is that now a Pro? And once the silver chassis comes out… it’s going to be trainspotter levels of nerdiness to spot the difference between versions. Imho, if Framework wanted a ‘Pro’ edition, they should have either made it a 14" version or made the chassis deeper so they could accommodate a larger / twin-fan cooler design to allow us to run this chip with more power. I guess this is all assuming that Framework aren’t coming out in the next few months with a “Framework 13 Max” device…
  4. Input deck - I love the new colour accented keyboards… or, I mean, I would love them… if they were available with anything other than an ANSI US English layout. C’mon Framework, it is four extra keys for an ISO version… is that so hard?

What did I do wrong?

So, there were a couple of things… I didn’t first look into XeSS not being a thing on Linux. I assumed it was, and was hoping to be able to use it… but overall, I think I probably would have gone ahead anyway. It’ll come at some point, it’s bound to.

Second, I should have ordered more RAM. I will state I was very lucky, being Batch 1 the original RAM price for my order was the price I paid, but I wish I’d gone for 64Gb over 32Gb. For local AI work, it’s needed. I can run local AI models just fine… but I find if I close down all my other apps (freeing up system RAM) then those models run a lot faster. Hopefully someone releases a 48GB stick at some point, or memory prices stop being quite so insane.

Finally, I should have carefully checked the pricing before ordering. I ordered a DIY unit with RAM but no expansion cards and no storage… as I had both of these things extra from my other laptop. However, I seem to have saved approx £61 over the Ubuntu spec model with 1TB of storage… I’d have happily paid £61 for a 1TB SSD and four expansion cards… so future me shouldn’t be so hasty.

Overall
Despite some of my moaning above, this is a great laptop so far and I am super happy with my purchase. Knowing what I know now, I’d probably buy this laptop again but with more RAM.

Anyway, if you’ve made it this far, please click like and subscribe… no wait, thanks for coming to my Ted ta… … no… ah well. Have at me in the replies, it’s been fun.

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truuuuue

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I think (but don’t know) Framework will release more varieties of colors for other types of expansion cards in the future. I have four silver cards (1 HDMI, 1 USB-C, 1 USB-A, and 1 1tb storage card) paired with two translucent black USB-C cards in my FW16. The mismatch kinda works for me due to how I’ve skinned my machine, but I can ABSOLUTELY understand the mismatch eating away at people’s brains.

This was an interesting choice. I assume Framework was working pretty directly to provide great battery results and chose to sacrifice some raw power, but there may be other good reasons to go the route the did (thermal regulation was probably a large factor). It’s a bit of a bummer to see other Panther Lake laptops sit squarely about the Intel FW13 Pro in benchmarks.

I’m betting (again without actually knowing) that Framework will come out with more color/layout input deck combos in the near future.

Great write-up! It comes across as fair and the added personal context is interesting.

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I share many of the same thoughts, but definitely new easyeffect profiles have been so useful that I’m surprised Framework recommend or release their own official profile to encourage users to see how good the speakers can be (though yes still not as good as Apple):

edit: though quieter, I do prefer the older profile personally: Easy Effects Preset for Framework 13 Pro · GitHub

Would really love an official scientifically/professionaly produced framework blessed profile :grinning_face:

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Unfortunately, this is a limitation of the cooling system, so it is unlikely to change.

From the heatsink and fan product page:

Handles 28W continuous processor load and up to 60W

(I guess a 2W rating difference is not an issue…?)

The cooler design has been pretty much fixed since the original 11th gen. Framework has made some improvements, like the move to a single heat-pipe, but without a board re-design, the physical constraints prevent the level of capacity increase needed to disperse the kind of sustained wattage you’re looking for.

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Thanks for taking the time to provide such a thorough write up. I’m super happy that you are enjoying your new machine overall.

I’ll make sure to share the feedback with my internal teams when they are back in after the holiday next week!

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I wonder if this is showing a discrepancy in the speakers between units then… or just that I’m old and my hearing is terrible…

The stock sound isn’t great. It’s perfectly passable for a work laptop and most of the time, I wouldn’t have an issue watching YouTube / Twitch etc, but I’ll be listening to music with headphones.

I’d found those profiles about an hour ago, and have been trying them but I’m not sure … the first one you link to sounds fine to me in the highs and the mids… but the base is just muddy and distorted.

The second profile has good highs… but the mid-range and bass is weak with the volume being so low I find I prefer the stock sound.

I guess due to the nature of hearing… there’s a large amount of subjectivity and maybe this is one of the issues the engineers had (though most folks seem to agree that MacBooks rule the built-in speaker space).

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Hi,

Regarding the audio quality.
I find it highly depends on the surface the laptop is on.
I find putting it on a surface that dampens vibrations makes it sound a lot better, for my FW16, so might be worth trying on the FW13.
Bearing the above in mind, it might be helpful if you also described the surface it was on when you tested.

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Yeah, and that’s kind of where I get to with the whole “Pro chassis” thing… by keeping almost everything swappable between chassis, I think they’ve painted themselves into a corner.

The Pro was the perfect chance to say “We can do more”.

I think Apple took a bold move (though they never publicly admitted it) when they made the Pro 14 chassis thicker than the 13 inch they replaced… it allowed them to return the HDMI and USB-A ports as well as increase the battery size and beef up the cooling. Things that most professional folks that used Apple devices were asking for.

I think it’s fine to refine the original chassis into what it is now and it’s good to have a thin-and-light class laptop… but not every laptop needs to be a thin and light and if you’re going to refer to it as Pro… it needs to bring it’s A game. I think it was a Lenovo unit I saw with Panther Lake and dual-coolers, I think that thing is going to melt workloads.

Perhaps I’m buying the wrong device, and should have waited for the FW16 to get the Pro treatment and the Panther Lakes chips… but I don’t need a 16" screen or a numpad (I know they’re optional).

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Thank you, I hope the feedback is taken in the way I felt when I was typing it … this is a great laptop and you’re definitely showing up some manufacturers that have been in the game for a lot longer and who have bigger coffers, so I hope the team feel proud of what they’ve achieved.

I guess some of the comments come from the fact that you set yourselves a really high bar, and I guess you knew that and took it as a challenge. I think they rose to it really well.

I’m certainly happy with my purchase, my FW13 lives on gifted to my wife whilst the MacBook goes on eBay.

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That’s great to hear… and yes your feedback will be taken in the emotion posted.

We listen to ALL feedback. Constructive or otherwise. We review everything.

We appreciate any and all feedback. As long as we can do something constructive with it, it actually influences our product offerings, firmware advancements, support changes, etc.

Although I cant guarantee any changes at this point ( especially immediate changes), I can guarantee it will be reviewed.

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This is a great review. Thank you for providing such in-depth feedback. I’m planning on getting a black chassis kit for my 12th gen once it becomes available for order, this bezel and right hinge issue is worrying, I hope FW has a fix for this before the chassis releases.

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I appreciate this review

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The color options thing mostly comes down to money. USB-C modules and ANSI keyboards are their biggest sellers, so they can afford to manufacture and stock them in multiple colors. The other modules and keyboards are lower volume items. (They are now making most of the modules in graphite to match the Pro chassis, and they will continue to be available in silver.)

Some of also like to use different colors of USB-C ports to indicate their intended use. It’s more important with the AMD mainboards, where different ports have different capabilities. I put an orange USB-C port on my two Framework systems (one is my personal system, the other is used by a bridge club I manage) to indicate where to plug in the power adapter, and if I ever get an external monitor with a USB-C connection I’ll get a blue port for that.

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I think Framework adjusted the EPP setting for lower power/better battery life setting(higher EPP number), versus other manufacturers. It seems to do quite well in battery life comparatively.

EPP adjusts the whole system to the setting you have. So lower number means more performance for more power. It’s not just a CPU thing, but a whole platform thing.

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I cannot say I am surprised by this (well, maybe by the fanless Air beating everything) … from the Thinkpad X1 Carbon review by JustJosh on Youtube.