Well there’s already great news on this front. The Framework DIY edition is already $139-$199 less expensive if you don’t get the Windows 10 License and want to run Linux instead. No distros preinstalled yet but they have announced that they are sending laptops to distro maintainers to improve support and that may lead to partnering officially with distros in the future. I personally went for the DIY edition for exactly this reason since I don’t intend on running Windows 10 or 11 on it ever. Windows on ARM support is a whole separate set of issues. When ARM is eventually supported officially by Framework I imagine it will be Linux first.
This part is really the sticking point in our conversation (which I’ve quite enjoyed by the way). I cannot speak for Framework since I am not employed by them but it seems to me they are unwilling to sacrifice performance, it seems as important to the overall design of the laptop as the repair-ability and the Expansion Card system. Which makes a lot of sense, if people want a budget ARM laptop with decent repair-ability and reasonable performance there are already great options out there in the Pinebook Pro. Pine64 is great at providing parts for repairs and even upgrades for some of their products like the PinePhone. It’s not as modular and repairable as the Framework but it comes close enough to illustrate a point. Framework could probably release an ARM board that is equal to the performance of the Pinebook Pro but it would be a very different product to the high performance Framework Laptop for the end user. I think Framework is interested in offering users choice but not if it means altering the design of the product.
If I allow myself to dream of a bright future where lots of people adopt the Framework then this is what I envision as the future of ARM on the platform: First community members release an ARM PCB probably a Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4 based board that Framework owners who are interested can buy on the Marketplace and run in their Framework laptops with no official support from the Framework team. Then hopefully just a few years down the line the ARM ecosystem has changed and Framework can design a mainboard that runs on ARM without sacrificing the overall design of the laptop which they will officially support.
@Shaun_Kingston and @Rhodesian The Raspberry Pi CM4 is something I had thought of as well, and mentioned here: Raspberry Pi CM4? @nrp replied that it’s technically possible, and that they’d be open to working with someone on it…
@Dan_Brunsink It seems to me to be the easiest option. The Compute Module 4 has a small vertical footprint now that it isn’t in the DIMM form factor like the old compute modules. So I imagine it would just take an enterprising group to make an IO board that fits the framework form factor. I do foresee some difficulties however. First I’m honestly not sure if the CM4 is capable of supporting the expansion card system and second the thermals might also be a problem as the raspberry pi 4 SoC runs surprisingly hot. But those things might not be deal breakers for people who just want to run ARM in their sustainable laptop case. Maybe a board based on the CM4 would have its own custom expansion cards also created by the community that wouldn’t be based on USB C but some other system to expand the IO of the CM4 based board. Or at least a way to make the IO ports flush with the outside of the laptop.
Are there any plans to introduce ARM CPUs to the framework line up? Would love the opportunity to create a framework laptop with an ARM processor setup
it’s not even the fact that there is just one maker outside of apple (qualcomm) but right now there is just a single model (snapdragon 8cx gen3) of arm chip that one can consider, and that model can’t even compete with apple’s M1 (let alone the later ones).
there are rumors about gen 4 being an insane improvement (let’s assume it is, which we don’t know), but even if framework manages to strike a deal with qualcomm to produce a motherboard to be delivered around gen 4’s launch date, i doubt it’d be before 2024.
Hi, I just discovered this company and i think it’s great to be able to update/replace parts of the laptop, so my next one will probably be a Framework laptop (with linux).
Quick question; I saw there are for now just x86-64 cpus available. If in the future Framework delivers ARM “packs”, do you think will be enough by replacing just the mainboard? All the other hardware could work with both arm and x86-64 cpus? If that’s possible would be super great.
At least if you replace the mainboard from Intel or AMD to Arm, you need to reinstall OS for Arm (aarch64) system. The binary is different. For example, you can see Fedora Linux has x86_64 and aarch64 iso images.
For Intel and AMD x86_64 systems
For ARM® aarch64 systems
Below is the result on the computers that I can access.
On Ubuntu 22.04 (jammy) arm64 (aarch64):
$ uname -m
aarch64
$ file /bin/ls
/bin/ls: ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, ARM aarch64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-linux-aarch64.so.1, BuildID[sha1]=63260a3e6e46db57abf718f6a3562c6eedccf269, for GNU/Linux 3.7.0, stripped
On Fedora 38 x86_64:
$ uname -m
x86_64
$ file /bin/ls
/bin/ls: ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, BuildID[sha1]=a146002a40b622e4d8420c5b96513f0784c8eb7b, for GNU/Linux 3.2.0, stripped
Sure, you’re right, the OS and all the binaries would have to be changed to their ARM compilation. (Having the user’s personal files stored in a different partition could make the switch less painful) . My question was just about the hardware level. Software obviously would change.
Framework is open to working with other vendors to provide third party mainboards. I previously suggested Pine64. Alternatively, maybe someone in the Raspberry Pi community can work to bring the RPi5 compute model with a carrier board that works with the Framework chassis.
I’ll believe the Elite X hype when I see it. Qualcomm doesn’t have a good track record in this market.
From what I’m hearing, while the design of the core is quite good thanks to their Nuvia acquisition, Qualcomm has made some business decisions that may make it difficult for this product to compete; requiring OEMs to use inefficient power regulation components in an attempt to seemingly force some vertical integration.
I’m looking forward to market developments once Qualcomm’s exclusivity deal with Microsoft expires in 2024 (I believe).
i agree with the general scepticism, but their own announcement talks about “leading OEMs” so i would assume there are a lot of negotiations under the hood. after all if the hype is somehow real if you’re dell you’d want in too. given how framework was comparatively fast at getting their hands on an unreleased new amd line of cpus (wide availability is a different story) i would not doubt that they’ve also been monitoring the situation.
