Availability of Alder Lake H series

Framework Laptop 13
1

Currently Framework only offers the P series. Are there any plans to offer H processors as well? Plenty of similar notebooks use the H series.

2

Its seems to be mostely a notion of cooling.
Nowadays the type of processor doesn t mean anything.
You could almost take a U series and take into 200 watt and make it as poerfull as a dekstop.
Bottomline you will hit the hard fact that framework laptop is using space for modularity… Therefore adding a 2nd fan cannot be done…or else you are on the road of making another Dell…assus…etc
To get there Fw need to be in a 15"

4

Well, as mentioned, plenty of similar notebooks do use those processors.

But I can’t tell what their cooling setup is. So you are saying Framework is limited in its cooling abilities because of the design?

5

Note the chassis has a vent for a second fan so I expect it to be possible. Also no you cannot just make a U-Series 200W, the proccessor has built in boosting algorithms, although you can turn down the power limits…

6

Yes, the current fan + heatsink is meant for up to 30W continuous load. If you put a higher power proccessor in there it’d just thermal throttle.

1 Like
7

All right, fair enough, I understand Framework won’t support higher-end processors in this case.

Thanks, everyone.

1 Like
8

Another point. Intel allows the P Processors to boost up to 60W. If the cooling was good enough and the manufacturer allows you to, you could run those at 60W indefinitely.

H processors are designed for 45W continuously. Although this not guaranteed, most devices with H processor can sustain cooling 45Ws, but will only boost higher temporarily. For example my Dell XPS 15 will limit its H processor (10th gen in my case, but the principle remains valid) to 48W continously, even though it can boost to over 90W.
So most H processors with 6 cores could be outpaced by a 1280P if it is allowed to boost indefinitely.

The only other advantage of H processors in 12th gen would be more PCIe connectivity. But since this basically only becomes relevant for attaching dGPUs with more than x8 connections, this should not matter in the slightest for the current frame work design (because no way is there enough room for improved cooling AND a dGPU big enough to even offer x16 PCIe).

1 Like
9

Are you saying the H series essentially does not perform better?

Intel Core i5 12500H vs i5 1240P: performance comparison would not suggest so.

I understand that Framework won’t support these processors, but I think you can’t say the P series performs equally well, as the H series is supposed to perform better.

Anyhow, my question really was mostly whether Framework would support that and not about possible performance differences.

10

From a specs perspective, the 1260P and 12500H are virtually identical: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/compare.html?productIds=226254,96141

If you limited both to using the same power (eg, manually setting PL1/PL2 via RAPL), they will perform almost the same (the 1260P maybe better since it is higher binned for better efficiency and max clock speed).

11

My point was that there are a few feature differences that do not matter for most devices (H series has almost as many PCIe lanes as the desktop versions, far more than most notebooks need). Other than that whats inside those processors is largely the same. The performance difference comes mostly from more power being available.

But of course, we all expect a laptop to be able to more or less at least sustain the base power of whatever processor it has. So on average a H-series device will be faster than a P or U series device. But if core count, cache-size, memory speed and available power is identical they should perform pretty much identical (maybe binning is a bit different) in terms of processing power, because they are pretty much identical.

Edit: too slow…

2 Likes
12

You are comparing an i5 to an i7 here.

But that’s the whole point. An H processor will perform better.

But again, the question has been addressed - thanks.

13

Lenovo already has the intel 1240 at 50watt in one of their laptop.

14

Again, the question was really if Framework planned to offer the higher-end processors as well. That seems to have been answered.

If the P series can be theoretically overclocked is a different story. Maybe the P series can be tweaked, but it’s really about the default configuration of each notebook and here the H series notebooks seem to have better performance.

But again, the question was actually addressed. Framework does not have plans for the H series.

15

An H series will play better than a P with the same architecture IF AND ONLY IF the sustained power consumption goes above 45W.

As FW is shipping with 28W (and extremely loud fans), it is completely meaningless to put a H-series inside.

16

Then Framework should probably lift the limit :slight_smile:

But again, the question has been addressed.

17

Basically impossible.

The cooling system on FW is simply not capable enough to run the CPU at 45W. It will generate too much heat and noise (the noise has already been too loud on the current 28W status that it is becoming an issue on an ultrabook).

There are a few ultrabook alternatives which runs their CPU at 45W. All dual-fan and large heatpipes. Some of them with vapor chambers. If you value the CPU performance, you may better look up them rather than the FW.