Sorry about that
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Comparing AMD and Apple, on paper.
The M4 has an NPU of 38 TOPS, whereas the 395 max+ has 50 TOPS…for a lot less $. Both supports up to 128GB of RAM. The 395 max+ also has an overall TOPS of 126 (at 120W sustained, I assume), so 1.26TOPS / w.
On paper, AMD is winning the perf/$.
Hell, for the price of US4800 (Apple), you can get two FD with change to spare…and expandable storage.
Now, what I’ll be interested to know is what other company has AMD partner with for the 395 max+ to run at 120W sustained, with 128GB RAM…and at what price. Surely, Framework isn’t the only partner with this configuration. Because I’ll be looking at BIOS update support, on-site serviceability, multi-year warranty coverage…etc.
Update (partially answering myself):
HP: HP Z2 Mini G1a Workstation…and you know that’s not going to be cheap from HP.
Lisa did say they’ve been looking at the AI market, so this desktop positions both AMD and Framework very well into that sector. The entry cost is sooo low compare to what you would have to pay.
In fact, it does (on paper) look like this is an AMD moment to celebrate, along with Framework. The ability to run large local models at a VERY reachable price point for the masses.
I want to read about the FD cluster setup. Is there a write-up on it?
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From the Framework 16 owner’s perspective:
- Announced the key module that’s actually not obtainable in any way for the next unknown amount of time. So feels like a last minute thing.
- Y U NO same bezel colors as Framework 13? That’s just weird that Framework 16 gets significantly less customization options, and you might have as well worked on rolling out those colors to both laptops with magnetic bezels.
Other than that, I can see the desktop being a killer PC replacement for what only a Mac could do before, but it’s just such a weird thing to see grom Framework. Soldered memory, soldered CPU. Does it even have a PCI slot?
Again, I am biased towards the 16" laptop, but why not develop the way to put a 16" laptop motherboard into the desktop and then release the new one with the AI chip. This would have been actually interesting - enabling reuse of the motherboards across form-factors.
Instead we see a mainboard per form-factor… Well, I guess I am now glad we didn’t get a gaming handheld because it would have to then also come with a custom mainboard variant.
Unlike many here, I don’t really need upgrades. The CPU in Laptop 16 is easily good for the next 4+ years and the dGPU is pretty capable. So I am kinda glad I didn’t really want anything from the current event, but the move to two new motherboard form-fractors that FW would need to support doesn’t feel like the move in the right direction for the companiy’s mission…
Thinking out loud some more, I am just baffled about Framework 12 being a different mobo… Let’s see. Probably the biggest/only motivator is cost:
- Motherboard has a single RAM slot and is probably overall cost-down. But I wonder if you could just leave empty space on the Framework 13 motherboard to achieve broadly the same BOM cost?
- Same for the 13 chassis. Why not design a new plastic chassis that would have yoga hinges with the touchhcreen display? Probably, because it would be too big to use as a foldable computer… And look at the thickness of the screen half on Framework 12, which is also most likely a cost-driven design.
I still believe in the end Framework wanted to do the same but the constraints just didn’t allow them to provide better solutions. Hope they find further success and have greater rssources to push harder on those constraints instead of to multiply the number of incompatible product lines.
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I was with everyone hoping for FW 16 GPU announcement, but given there is not really much to replace the current offering with it does make sense we didn’t hear anything yet.
I’m starting to think LPCAMM2 is dead from the get go. I was really hoping to see it take off and stop the trend set by Apple and others to end upgradability and turn relatively inexpensive memory into an extreme premium. That said, if others can’t compete with the performance of soldered everything, I’d rather they at least solder things at a fair price. I think the desktop is going to be out of stock for a while given hardware and price together. I think the desktop is much more exciting for running local models than for gaming.
I’m very curious with the long therm plan for desktop upgradability will be. They did not seem to explain how desecrate GPU could be added in the future witch the FW 16 has even if we did not hear about it today.
For me it felt like FW16 was basically ignored, sure they showed the key module for the 5 people that care, then they immediately transitioned to saying how they shuffled their entire roadmap to make the desktop nobody was asking for.
So while you are technically correct it was not completely ignored, to an average FW16 owner who no longer uses a desktop (replaced desktop with FW16) it did feel very ignored.
Granted we do not know what impact the desktop had on the roadmap and if FW16 would have had any more or less to show this event, but that is how it feels to me.
Overall I am excited for framework as a company hitting a desktop market is a good move, and the FW12 looks interesting, but it’s not going to be for me at the framework price tag, so I sit here as a FW16 owner feeling rather ignored today.
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I feel left out with the FW16, but I will tell you this: They better make MILLIONS of that FW12! It has been a very long time since I’ve seen a product with such a high cute factor. Pre-ordering the desktop made me feel better 
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For those bemoaning the desktop’s both seeming departure from form because of the RAM, physical reasons included, and its lack of compatibility with the rest of the line up except for the expansion ports, I think there is a good reason for this move.
I suspect that the intention of this product is less of a “here’s a cool idea we have” and more of a business-to-business relationship building exercise. It seems that this new AMD chip doesn’t have many products with it yet, so by Framework being one of the first to sell such a product, they show AMD that they are willing to try new things out. This will hopefully lead to more AMD chips launching on Framework for the other form factors.
I’m not buying one, but I see that it makes good business sense to jump at this opportunity.
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Bingo! That’s definitely what it is. I love AMDs partnership with Framework and do hope both companies help each other out. While I don’t have any personal need for the desktop at this time, I am sure many do.
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I think you are spot on. I might buy one once I dig into cost-performance.
Not a fan of the missed modularity. I do have some projects that might make good use of it besides personal.
I would say if the performance per $ is somewhat competitive I rather buy from framework. And vote with my wallet that way. Hopefully we get better modularity in the future.
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Due to how the pricing is set, if trying to build something larger, buying the 64gb and clustering seems better than a single 128gb. My afternoon is now so unproductive.
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I feel like the AMD chip they are shipping is pretty unique. I’m not aware of any other products which could do what a Mac Studio can do, and so for Framework it mist be generally exciting to have a product for creative professionals and AI people, who generally are used to paying quite some money for stuff, plus are not generally amongst their existing audience I presume.
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Oh, I’m not suggesting it’s a low quality product. I like that there’s a relatively inexpensive way to run AI models locally on the horizon. But that it drifts from what one would expect from framework since it was designed after being approached about the chip, rather than from the ground up.
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I wonder, with the FD being more of a workstation, will we now see multi-year (3) warranty by default for this particular product line?
Kudos to the Market Place configurator of the FD. I love the tile selector and the tile options.
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Missed the bingo. Still, 2 of the three big ones is pretty neat
P.S.
Someone had fun being clever, with two opposites both being true 
(talking of desktop + 12 ")
Gotta be honest, I did not see a desktop coming. And it is kind of off brand for Framework because of the lack of modularity. Hopefully it is setup in a way in which you actually can use that RAM, seems in the z13 you can put 75% towards AI.
Wondering how performance would be with an eGPU in the mix not just clustering.
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Yep @James3 I was able to get a batch 1 desktop. I’ve been working in AI for a small amount of time, and was looking for either an eGPU, or better system, and this is priced just right. Now, ROCm software - I’m hoping that gets major improvement before ship date. And in the stable branch of NixOS. But alas, I may dream…
I’m going to wait for a review from Wendell, I bet he’ll do an awesome review on it with various use cases in mind.
All good.
Good point. If they had offered an FW16 with soldered RAM, it would instantly fall off my to-buy list.
That said, I am predicting that as memory-to-CPU speeds increase, at some point in the not-too-distant future the CPU makers are going to integrate RAM directly into the CPU die. We’ll have to buy our RAM size option when we buy the CPU.
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That’s exactly what I said earlier! Glad you agree.