Framework AMD 13 - review after one year (disappointment)

Framework Laptop 13
21

Yes, though often with an explicit one-time replacement policy. Other companies exclude screens from warranty coverage specifically. Some offer additional warranty coverage that explicitly includes limited screen replacements.

They key point here is “could have been caused”. I and the many others with similar issues report zero physical indication of damage and only normal use; some report the problem manifesting without the laptop even having been moved. Framework is, in essence, claiming we are all lying.

3 Likes
22

Unfortunately that’s the world we live in. For example, companies added moisture sensors to their products so that they could prove that the device had gotten wet.

Best of luck getting things resolved, whether repairing the existing machine or moving to something else.

23

Glad that you pointed this as it reminded me the reason they do so: under any sane jurisdiction (like most EU countries to my knowledge), if there’s no reasonable indication that a given damage was user induced, then the warranty provider cannot just refuse the service. Kinda like “innocent until proven guilty” for consumer rights. Otherwise providers would be able to basically refuse any service by always just claiming “user induced”…

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I and my Apple customers have gotten replacements from Apple that were likely to be (or that we knew to be) customer-caused. Same with top covers (for keyboard issues caused by us end users).

Apple is large enough to eat the loss just to keep the customer’s loyalty. They make it back over time, as these customers continue to buy (IMO) overpriced Macbook Pros over the years.

I get that Framework is not large enough to eat the losses of customer accidents, but there is a dollar value incentive to doing so (it essentially is a marketing cost). For example, rather than spend $1 million on a SuperBowl ad, a laptop maker could spend $1 million on replacing broken displays, no questions asked, and probably could get more total revenues over time than the SuperBowl ad could have.

1 Like
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Yeah, definitely glad I posted as there have been some interesting replies. (The Intel NIC arrived today!)
Lurking on Linux forums so how-dare-you-question-my-X is nothing new. Imagine if I had said I’m buying an XBox instead :smile:

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The way I see it, Framework had initially built up goodwill with me with their repair guides and initial design. As a result of that good will, I was happy to pay a higher price.

Last spring, I realized they messed up the BIOS/ACPI, WiFi, and USB-C ports and spent a fair bit of time troubleshooting. That burned the positive goodwill and leaves them neutral.
Eventually, Framework got enough bad publicity for this and decided to improve the situation.

Then the screen failed (admittedly he-said/she-said, but I believe myself to be honest), and their support burned my remaining goodwill. I’ve removed their logo sticker, and no longer feel justified recommending Framework to other people. Particularly non-tech friends/family, for whom I’ll recommend a device less likely to need repair. Personally, I don’t think that’s a good way to enter a market, but we’ve each made our respective choices. Perhaps if enough people continue to point out screen and/or chassis deficiencies they’ll decide to improve the situation.

To be clear, I hope Framework succeeds in both improving their quality and steering the market towards repair-ability. Hell, I’ve checked their job postings a few times! Still, I don’t feel particularly inclined to waste more time and money waiting. Better suppliers exist.

3 Likes
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Also, this guy has absolutely perfect comedic timing in his “customer-induced-damage.” :joy: :joy:

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27

I have to disagree with almost everything. I bought the AMD version and have had nothing but a great experience.

For linux instead of going with something not supported i went with one of the distros that is, in my case bluefin and aurora. Hell, I can even switch between them with one command no issues.

I use and egpu, nvidia and intel both have worked well out of the box through usb4.

I know everyone has their preferences but mint has never been my go to. I think the team that works on blufin/aurora have put together something really special. I have been daily driving it since trying it coming from fedora/kde. I do a lot of ML and gaming on steam on my framework. To be completely honest I was not happy with the immutable idea but once you get used to and learn how to leverage it there is no coming back. I have always had a working laptop even when i heavily mess with the OS

I may be sounding like a fanboy at this point that this is coming from a guy who used to spend $1200+ on a laptop every year. I don’t want to change my framework until they Framework releases another amd version (I am still hopeful for a strix point main board upgrade).

I understand we all have different experiences and that the product my not be perfect that even every laptop is different due to manufacturing (which I personally I’m inclined to think only has gotten better over time, I come from an intel 12th).

I have ask for a couple of things from the FW team but they are very niche. I would like to be able to set the amount of RAM for the igpu on the bios and would really love a black chasis (which i understand there are reason why not). I am a little bit of a maniac and fortunately have found work around for both. I may be ordering extra chasis parts to get them anodized but have have not figured out how to get the touchpad in black…

4 Likes
28

Thats just not true, My $3k Apple Macbook pro with broken screen cable (not customer induced, flexgate) was refused to be replaced, even cable and screen in 2017 is absolutely the same as 2016 and has the same problem. One fun fact that I was refused compensation in class action on keyboard because they had no record of my top assembly being replaced, even the official apple shop did the replacement. Across all vendors, Apple is just the worst.

29

So you’re calling me a liar based on your own negative experiences with Apple, completely disregarding my own positive experiences with Apple?

I’ve been repairing/supporting Apple products since 1992 including supporting many graphic design/video professionals. In all that time, my customers/end-users absolutely have had Apple replace or repair for free parts that were damaged by the customer. I would be willing to go on the stand in court and testify to this under penalty of perjury.

I am not saying that they never deny such claims. It is up to their discretion. They absolutely have denied me or my end-users/customers many times. But on balance, we’ve had more luck getting stuff that was over-the-line-our-fault repaired or replaced than not, including displays or display cables.

I always make it a point to go to the Apple Genius Bar in person to make these requests. I have had terrible luck getting free repairs done by requests made over the phone or online.

I’ll go on a weekday morning when foot traffic is slow so the Genius doesn’t feel hurried and the store isn’t too noisy, so we can talk relaxedly. And it’ll be one of the Apple Stores in an affluent area where they are likely to provide more accommodating service. I always am super nice to the Genius when asking for the repair that I know could be denied. No whining, no complaining, no trickery–just be chill and straightforward.

Almost always the repair requests that succeeded were under warranty (AppleCare Protection Plan), but I did manage to get one out-of-warranty repair done (top cover, keyboard malfunction).

I also did get a display replaced before FlexGate but none after FlexGate became a known thing. Here’s what I think: during the early part of FlexGate, I think Apple saw too many display cable repair requests coming in, and due to the high cost of replacing the entire display, they put out an internal bulletin saying to all Geniuses: DO NOT repair FlexGate-affected laptops any longer.

Note that I am not an Apple fanboi. Currently I am boycotting Apple on principle (I believe strongly in the Right to Repair) and also professionally (Apple’s designs are harder to repair than ever, effectively meaning that I send all my Apple customers/end-users directly to the Genius Bar now for anything hardware-related. These customers often seem disappointed when I turn them away, as if I am refusing to help them because I don’t like them personally or something.) I have exactly one Apple product left in my own possession and will be 100% Apple-free when it dies. So to some degree I agree with you that Apple is awful, but not based on their denial of our repair requests. I just don’t like having to go to them for every hardware repair.

I do not warn people not to buy Apple products, and if they ask, i will tell them that they make excellent products. I still recommend Apple to some customers/end-users if appropriate. This even in spite of FlexGate and my own 2016 Macbook Pro’s failed USB C port. It’s a numbers game, and in my 35 years of experience in IT support, overall, Apple products are more reliable than Dell or Lenovo and certainly much more reliable than HP.

Also, to be crystal clear, I am not negating your negative experiences or negative opinion of Apple. I believe you suffered unfairly at their hands; I am just pointing out that the Apple Store Genius Bar does have some discretion as to what to repair and that you can maneuver through some repairs that probably should be denied. It does take effort and luck.

BTW, regarding your own FlexGate MBP, if you are comfortable replacing the display and lid assembly yourself, the best price/source is probably Rewa.tech. They charge a lot for shipping but the quality of their parts (which may include refurbished, like new) has been very good in my experience.

30

I agree with Xal. I updated my early 11th gen to AMD, and have been running Manjaro (arch-based) for the duration. Other than some mediatek pain that resolved with kernel 6.11, mine’s been solid. Abused as heck, and I’ve broken and replaced many components over the years, but it’s still my daily driver.

My FW usually travels to crazy places with me. I broke my normal habit and took the Thinkpad X1 Carbon to Costa Rica last week, and completely regretted it. Nothing bad about the TP, I just prefer the FW.

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Can we remove or disable it?

32

He probably means the moisture indicator stickers most manufacturers put in their products. From a repair perspective knowing there has been water is pretty useful and so is able to tell if a customer sends in something water damaged as warranty case.

Problem there is that those indicators can often be triggered by humid air that is a thing in some places so it does also lead to legit warranties being denied which is less good.

As for removing, if it’s the sticker kind you certainly can XD.