Framework Laptop 16 new CPUs (when?) and GPU price increase

Framework Laptop 16
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I’m considering getting a Framework laptop and would really prefer the extra expansion slots and screen real estate from the Laptop 16, but it seems like only the Laptop 13s have the new Ryzen AI 300 “Strix Point” CPUs. Is there any idea when we can expect the new CPUs to arrive for the Laptop 16?

Also, I was looking at the configuration/builder tool a week or two ago and recall the price for the RX 7700S GPU module was around $500-550 CAD, but now it seems like it has gone up to $660 - is it related to tarriffs (despite me purchasing from Canada)?

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Unfortunately the Ryzen AI 300 series CPUs only support 16 PCIe lanes, which isn’t suitable for the Framework 16.

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Pretty much gets asked every week.

Concensus is - If they haven’t announced anything then it isn’t happening. The current AMD CPU/GPU aren’t a big enough jump in gains to benefit. Theres also the issue of the AMD cpus really needing soldered RAM (see the desktop framework) which really goes against the whole Framework ethos.

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IMHO buy something else.
No communication from Framework, no BIOS updates, old drivers, charging bugs that don’t get fixed and many more.
I love the idea and would promote it but it looks like they hate the FW16. It doesn’t get any love from them.

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Well, there’s been discussion about the R9 9955HX3D coming to FW16 (not from FW of course) and I think that could also be worthwhile, though I am not that sure about cooling this chip and the modularity, as the iGPU of this CPU is really trash, so it would be better to use it only with a d/eGPU. This chip doesn’t use soldered RAM however.

I think the bigger problem is the fact that AMD hasn’t (yet) talked about any mobile GPUs, which would be the more necessary upgrade. The 7840HS seems to still slap, but the 7700S is not good.

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Regarding the GPU module, is it still showing that? I’m trying to reproduce on my side, but I don’t see a change. Thanks!

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I felt the same way about 12th gen Intel Framework 13 no BIOS updates for two years…and now they appear to be getting into an update cadence. Give it time.

Also you can’t upgrade if the CPU/GPU vendor has nothing new to offer.

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In my opinion, they should talk more about the problems and how they would like to solve them. They could offer a new mainboard with soldered RAM and so on. But they ignore the current product and focus on new ones. That’s not what I see as future proof.

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Does feel like they’re spreading themselves too thin here. I feel like the 13 is a pretty good product at this point, but the 16 has been dead in the water for a while now. They should have went all hands on deck getting the 16 up to speed before releasing two entirely new device lines. Why would anybody risk buying one of the new ones when the FW16 has become the exemplar of “yeah we’ll get back to this when we feel like it”?

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How can they get the 16 up to speed when there aren’t suitable options for significant upgrades currently for the CPU and GPU?

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Don’t get me wrong, that’s a valid point but…the consumer isn’t going to care about their woes getting hardware and software up to code. They’re just going to either lose interest or go to a competitor. Even people really willing to give Framework a chance will eventually tire of the radio silence right now.

Something as simple as a “we’re currently facing market challenges finding hardware suitable for our mission, but we’re still actively working on bringing new options to the FW16” would be better than the current tiptoeing around the 16-inch aluminum elephant in the room.

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Even if there aren’t any updated hardware they can offer from AMD, I would say support on the firmware side of things hasn’t been great.

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Soldered ram has come up for a laptop & they don’t want to do that.

Some say soldered ram is better than waiting, but they aren’t considering everything. Framework has to consider how it will look & people’s reaction. A lot of people complained, were even pissed at FW, for doing soldered ram on the Desktop, and that was a whole new platform created just for that purpose! Framework has sold these laptops to many people, with the laptops being repairable and upgradable as a core element. To some, Framework doing a laptop mainboard with soldered ram will say that Framework can not be trusted. Waiting is the best choice for Framework. A suitable CPU will come.

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I agree. I think if nothing else, it might ease some of the “they abandoned the 16” talk if they would be a bit more vocal about working on BIOS updates.

But about that “they abandoned the 16” talk, only time will tell, but I think it’s currently a bit too soon to conclude that. I’m not saying it would be too surprising if they had released a revised main board by now, but I believe it has only been a little over a year since they finished shipping the original pre-orders, so it also doesn’t seem too surprising that they haven’t.

I think the main issue is the CPU options available right now. Maybe they’ll announce something tomorrow, but I can see problems with basically every option. Developing a new mainboard must be pretty time consuming and expensive, and it seems like all the options right now seem like they would have limited appeal in some way.

AI Max chips require soldered RAM, so I think that would turn a lot of people off. It would surely still sell, but might sit wrong with a lot of people, and could pose other issues as well. Either way, one of the things Framework has said about the 16, is that they didn’t want to go with soldered RAM for the next mainboard. So that’s out.

There are options with more CPU power (and more power draw and possible thermal concerns), but far weaker iGPUs than the current offering. This might not offer a compelling upgrade to folks who don’t have the dedicated GPU and don’t want to take a huge step back in GPU performance. And it might sit wrong with some people, making it seem like they chose it to force people to buy the dGPU.

Then there are the Ryzen AI 300 chips. These have a much more powerful NPU, but fairly similar CPU and GPU performance to what is in the FW 16 now, so they also may not seem like a compelling upgrade to a lot of people. Less so if they have to cut certain features due to the reduced number of PCIe lanes. It wouldn’t sit well with people if the new mainboard didn’t support full functionality with the expansion bay or went down to one NVMe slot.

I know each one of those options have had folks on the forum say they would buy it. But each one also has pitfalls and the potential to ruffle some feathers. It’s a lot of time and effort to develop a new mainboard that might compromise the design of the machine in some way, and may have limited appeal.

That’s not to say none of those options could work out. Framework may even be working on one of them right now. But they have always said that they don’t talk about what they have in the works until it’s basically ready, so I suppose we’ll know when we know. But I think it’s premature to say that they have obviously abandoned the FW 16. At least, for now. I really hope I’m not wrong.

Either way, hopefully some firmware fixes are on the way. :folded_hands:

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First about soldered RAM.
I don’t like it but if it’s the way to go then do it. It doesn’t make sense to talk about it forever if there are only powerful CPUs with soldered RAM.

About the newer CPUs, in my opinion, FW doesn’t need to announce a product, but they should communicate why they don’t use the newer ones.
Like you said, not more power, needs more energy, lower GPU and so on. They could create a table so people see if that makes sense to stay with the current CPU.
They still could be silent about new upgrades but they could fix the EC/BIOS bugs, they could bring the QMK firmware upstream and so on. But nothing is done and nobody talks about anything. They focus on new products. That’s why I say any new possible customer, buy something else. Look at the charging problems with some power banks or 240W chargers. There are custom firmwares to fix problems but FW should have done that.

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That is kind of a blip and strix halo straight up does not make sense in the fw16 in the first place as it can have a dgpu and strix halo doesn’t have enough pcie lanes to do everything the 16 currently does. The other current offerings are pretty meh.

They could do an intel one which could be pretty interesting but that too would be mostly a sidegrade at this point.

I am with @BigT there, the fw16 doesn’t need new hardware, it needs the current one to be finished first. It’s kinda why I was so annoyed at the desktop, they are starting pretty unnecessary side-quests (the minipc market is quite saturated and already very modular) while their current lineup is still pretty unfinished and support is not in a state it should be.

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100% agree.

soldered ram in a laptop really defeats the entire object of what FW are trying to do.

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That’s why I was surprised that they released a mini desktop with soldered RAM.
They should have solved the bugs in the current product first.

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Because AMD told them they couldn’t as far as I’m aware

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So the EC firmware bugs for charging cannot be fixed? It’s fixed by forums users and the code is on GitHub. They are not able to release new drivers? We should use the old ones even when there are much newer ones? Where are the BIOS updates with new AGESA to fix security holes?
I don’t think it’s related to AMD.

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