This is a very interesting comment and I’m very interested in your thoughts, as well as @rustyniall , @Clinko , and @Jeremiah_Jones . My understanding is that there’s a general sense that the whole point of Framework was to “vote with your wallet,” to make a stance within the context of capitalism that you aren’t ok with environmental harm by companies like Lenovo or Dell who promote e-waste and make no effort to even pretend to not do so, whereas Framework’s entire schtick was anti-e-waste, pro-environmentalism, pro right to repair, and so to participate in Framework was akin to joining a sort of community or even movement. The Framework logo on the back of the laptop was a statement alongside the benefits of repairability of the machine itself, and now that statement is tainted, and so…, here’s where I get confused, though Jeremiah you are correct that Clinko tried to preempt this confusion, I am simply not able to understand yet, why is the solution to go back to the companies who don’t even pretend to care and don’t sell repairable machines and are doing objectively more harm to the world?
And that brings me back to @emeraldshow ‘s comment. It reminds me of a time I lost my jacket on a United flight and filled a support ticket for it. Doing so got me entered into a random thing where I was invited by United to meet a part of their executive team over a lunch with some other customers to just I guess give them direct feedback. I was fascinated by the other customers that were selected: they were all people who were e.g. huge posters on airline point optimization forums, or airline bloggers or the like, and they had a lot of feedback about obtuse point system changes that I simply couldn’t understand. But I had a similar main confusion as I do now in this thread, which reached its apex when the points-forum guy said “It’s starting to really feel like United isn’t using the loyalty program to create a community of United flyers” or something along those lines. I had to ask him directly, “Do you believe having a high status on United means you have a special relationship with them? Do you believe they care about you?” Yes, and yes, were the answers given straight without irony, and I asked the executives the same, is that true? Their yes felt much more politically correct, the kind of yes you see a politician say through his lying teeth on camera.
So that’s my confusion: Many folks, including those named, seem optimistic that there are ways to fight back against environmental damage, or to protect right to repair, by buying a laptop from a specific brand. It seems like some people are feeling betrayed because their ethical champion in capitalism has turned out to be wearing false colors. So I have the same question: Did people really believe that Framework is going to have a meaningful impact on environmentalism, enshittification, late stage capitalism, or right to repair? Did people really believe that any corporate entity under capitalism is capable of anything other than maximizing profit?
I am skeptical. United airline points are a mechanism to ensure you continue to choose United airlines even though they suck ass, and they’re designed by PhD mathematicians to ensure the house always wins no matter how many perks and upgrades you think you’re getting. I’ve met Nirav, and the Framework folks used to come to my restaurant (around the corner from their office), I believe he believes in the mission and I believe his team does too (even moreso), however I am skeptical to my toes about the ability of any capitalist entity to have any meaningful impact on the topics they’re tackling, and so I’m confused at the grand sense of betrayal by folks here, or even feelings of depression!
I would argue for clearer eyes: By buying a Framework, the most any of us have ever done is at least ensured a little less e-waste from ourselves, and for us Linux nerds, some great work in Linux driver world. But to think we were doing something more meaningful than that, I just don’t know, it seems like a trap. Like we were thinking the United Platinum Status meant United cared about us.
Thought experiment: Nirav apologizes for the DHH thing and bans him from future purchases, and hosts an antifascist rally in SF. He does whatever it is that purifies him in the eyes of the naysayers in the thread here. What’s our world look like then? Let’s even say, Framework gets 20% market share. Has John Deere been defeated in court and farmers are allowed to repair their own purchased equipment now? Or has a stacked supreme court and the massive capital wielded by John Deere won? Has Apple and Samsung been forced to stop engaging in planned obsolescence? Has Google’s monopoly been broken up, does BP still dump oil into the Gulf whenever it wants, is jet fuel for private jets taxed like fuel for cars is, does America have any kind of public transit, are there still coal plants running? Are there still children in India picking chips off old phones? Are PRC fabrication employees still hurling themselves off roofs? Framework is eyeing an IPO that could take it into the stratosphere, is it our champion still? Does the team resist the siren call of all becoming millionaires? Does Nirav, with investor Linus Sebastian breathing down his neck, resist the siren call of becoming a billionaire?
Do we really keep trusting capitalist entities to be our champions in these fights? Have we ever been anything but disappointed?
@emeraldshow , my honest advice is the most important thing you should be doing is having a deep think about how consumerism might be affecting you, and where your emotions are coming from in regards to a laptop purchase. I feel sad hearing that your depression is affected by the thought of a purchase, I’ve heard of shopping therapy before but I’ve always felt it’s some really messed up symptom of capitalism: somehow the corporations have convinced us that buying things will make us happy.
If what you’re looking for is a vibrant, multicultural, inclusive community, you can find it, easily, and you won’t need to purchase anything to do so. Find your nearest Food Not Bombs chapter, or some related organization; hop on meetup.com, look for environmentalists, activists. See if there’s a g0v group near you, or a civic hack group (code for america is the big one in the usa). If you’re looking for a powerful laptop, get a good lenovo t14 on ebay, install linux and join the community of linux nerds, but you can join the community of linux nerds right now without buying anything: just watch some programming streamers on twitch or youtube, follow them to their discords. Run linux in a VM if you must. Get a raspberry pi and plug into a cheap monitor.
For me, I am genuinely curious about my above questions, I’m not trying to attack anyone, I just want to know: if you think there’s a solution, within capitalism, to the problems capitalism creates: why? What does your ideal future look like and how do we get there?