hyprland is just an eye candy version of sway. i can also recommend niri, as it takes a novel approach to tiling by adding scrolling. feel free to use hyprland, though. people will draw opinions about you, in regards to that. similar to anything else you do. no one here cares if framework employees are using these things, it comes down to advertising for them and funding them.
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Thanks for the recommendation. Will give it a try.
This is so disappointing, I feel like now I have the laptop version of owning several Teslas. You were wrong. You continue to be wrong. And Iâm jumping ship now before I confirm what the sleeping arrangements below deck are. But the smell and the screaming are more than enough for me to make a confident decision here and now. Spoiler: fashing is still enshittification.
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The problem is that OSS (and especially FLOSS) is inherently political. The idea that we (and not some company controlled by billionaires) should have the final say over how we use our devices is political. The idea that software should be free to modify and transparent to users is political, as it puts control (and therefore power) in the hands of the users (rather than the company or organization making the software).
The other, more specific problem here is that Framework made this political by repeatedly tying themselves to someone with racist beliefs (publicly professed on his own blog!). They made this even more political when they doubled down saying that DHH is welcome in their âbig tentâ, since that is a political position. Deciding who is part of your big tent necessarily entails making decisions on which political positions are dealbreakers. Itâs why I asked above what would be a dealbreaker. For example, if someone you publicly associate with (and shout out) happened to also publicly be a member of Patriot Front, would that be a dealbreaker? For people not from the US, Patriot Front is a white nationalist neo-nazi group. I would hope that no matter how good the FLOSS software, Framework would stop shouting out that person or their software.
And thatâs the point. The people alleging here that this is making FLOSS political also have their own lines. They just donât think DHH is bad enough to merit this discussion, whereas plenty of people (myself included) do.
I suspect that you, for example, would not publicly associate with someone like Musk (unless youâre far-right, in which caseâŚwhatever). And you would be annoyed if Framework started shouting out some OSS Musk was involved in, say. Then, someone who supports Musk might turn around and say literally the same thing you are saying here: âWhy are you making this political?â. It already was.
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I feel like now I have the laptop version of owning several Teslas.
A better simile might be going to a shop to buy groceries, realising the shop has a Tesla powerwall, having a go at the owner, getting a blank look in response, then spending the day standing outside the shop door calling on the whole town to picket it until the owner comes out and apologises.
Later it turns out some of the allegations being flung about arenât even true, but only a few people notice this and their voices get lost in the rapidly growing crowd of protesters.
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After doing some more digging, perhaps this seems to be possibly what some people are using to accuse this person of being racist over?
I canât, per se, view this as racist so much as anti-immigration nationalism. Those distinctions are, however, perhaps ultimately semantic differences of opinion to some wit, though I find the alternative lacking.
When I think of a racist person, I think of the people who want to exclude people from participation based upon race. If I read this post, I see, perhaps, someone who appears to be what you might call a nationalist.
Is there a distinction between nationalism and racism? To my mind the answer is yes, there is an important distinction between nationalism and racism. The nationalist might oppose immigration, but he or she does not advocate for stripping privileges from persons who are already citizens based upon their race.
I have met those who would say that people of certain races should be entitled to certain privileges and opportunities, to wit, these are the racists. Perhaps there is a correlation between nationalists and racists. I am not going to claim for one moment, that there is not overlap between these two groups. Clearly, many nationalists are also racists and vise versa. But those groups are nonetheless, not the same. To, without evidence, claim a nationalist to be a racist, merely because he mentions race or ethnicity in the context of a nationalist rant, seems disingenuous and anti-intellectual.
Moreover, what would you have him do about his own opinions? Is he not permitted to complain about the totalitarian crackdown on dissent of the UK? Can he not complain about the problems facing his own ethnicity the same way the progatzi allow the minority ethnicity groups to complain about racial issues without an ascription of moral fault?
Perhaps this instigation of a double standard is viewed less favorably by those subject to its intolerance. It is quite often I see those espousing so-called tolerance advocate for consequences to those merely venting their own frustration and sharing opinions. Can you consider the possibility that the same standards should be applied to each person, regardless of whether they belong to the âwhiteâ group or other ethnic group?
Have you not ascribed positions to a man who has not shared them merely by his perceived membership in a given group? Isnât that the central wrong of racism to begin with? To judge someone by their group rather than their individuality? Do you defend or distinguish these?
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Calling the guy who complains about there not being enough white people in London and celebrates Tommy Robinson marches a âcentristâ is probably the richest thing in this whole thread. Anyone who claims to have read his blog and not having found anything objectionable are just telling on themselves. Centrists, suuuure.
Personally, I have previously cancelled my FW12 preorder because of a variety of reasons and circumstances, but with the full intention of getting one in the future. How Framework handles this has a lot of sway over if I go through with it or not. For clarity, I feel kind of âehâ about the Hyprland situation, seeing as theyâve put in active effort to better their community. Promoting the DHH guyâs projects and by extension DHH himself is the stinky part for me. I wish we could live in a vacuum where we can just look at the software and focus on that, but reality doesnât work that way.
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Perhaps centrist is not the right term, given the lack of original sources I had to do my own digging to find the primary sources. After some additional digging, I did find a blog post regarding a nationalist rant. Even so, Iâm not sure Iâd call this individual a right wing extremist, he seems to hold what Iâd consider more mainstream right-wing positions on immigration. Perhaps under the totalitarian UK government, things do not appear that way. I can see how the government banning dissent could distort your view on what is centrist and right wing. A political position held by around 40% of the population is hardly what I would call âextremistâ even if it is a minority one. Nor have I been able to find evidence of the so-called racism.
Now, perhaps this is an aside, it stands to reason that framework should not, in general, get involved in such petty semantic disputes nor cancel someone for mere blog posts, regardless of how offended some people are by those blog posts. Should it do the same for those on the right offended by âextremistâ left wing positions, it would result in alienation of many in the trans community and such. That is not good for a computer company.
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Being upset that you donât see as many white people on the streets as you used to seems pretty dang racist to me. Talking warmly about a bloody Tommy Robinson march without a single word of disavowal is incredibly telling.
Iâm not asking Framwork to cancel anyone. Not promoting any or other shithead is not cancelling them.
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Iâm both mad and disappointed. I had bought a framework 16 secondhand missing a few parts, and now it looks like that money is going to be a waste, since I canât buy the missing parts and in doing so knowingly support a company that supports fascists.
This is a thermocline of trust moment. There may still be room for them to turn around, but the timeframe for that is likely measured in hours, not days.
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That language could perhaps be viewed as racist. I think you can also view it as a nationalist viewpoint. Itâs certainly possible that you can view nationalism as a plausible pretext for racism.
One counter point is that he uses the term â60% Native Britishâ to refer to the âWhite Britishâ ethnic group in the 2000 year data, which expressly excludes the ânon-British Whiteâ group. Given his exclusion of non-British whites, I think this can be viewed more as a nationalist position than a racist one. If you donât want to draw a distinction between nationalism and racism and lump them together as âfar rightâ, thatâs your prerogative I suppose, but donât expect not to be called out on it.
I think if framework promotes a project that someone works on, thatâs not the same as promoting the person. Furthermore, they can promote open source software they work on without endorsing that personâs political viewpoints.
Thereâs a difference between not promoting racist post, e.g. by not promoting DHHâs blog, and cancelling the man.
Cancellation is, in essence, in most regards not about refusing to promote a nationalist political blog (or racist, if you interpret it that way), but rather, about the refusal to promote anything associated with the individual or cause the individual financial harm.
If Framework says they wont promote his political blog, thatâs reasonable and not cancellation. If however, they want to refuse to fund or promote an open source project because of who runs the project, that is cancellation.
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No, itâs not a nationalist viewpoint. Itâs a racist viewpoint. And really, I donât think you believe for a second that he, a Danish man, would ever have written that blog post in a world where the number of white Brits was down to todayâs number but the number of white people overall had stayed the same.
Iâve said my piece. Have fun, everyone.
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Is that actually true? Has he argued for that? Or has he only argued for disallowing additional immigration? It seems to me like you (and other progatzis) are ascribing more extreme positions to people than they have actually publicly supported. If I am wrong, Iâd like to see an example. Otherwise, I have to presume youâre only making hyperbolic exaggerations.
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Have you tried installing gentoo?
You know, Iâve seen two major positions here: âthis sucksâ and âwho caresâ. which is funny to me because just not caring/not seeing a problem is hardly enough impetus to write a whole comment about it, and imo not really enough for Framework to need to take this into account. How many people actually care about specifically Omarchy/Hyprland being given this type of support by Framework in a positive way, and how many are upset about it? From what Iâve seen, those who are upset are in the vast majority of the people who have mentioned any specifics about the projects or leadership, and many people are posting here more so because they donât like the politics of the people who are upset or else just want to have an opinion on the wider discourse of âcancellingâ.
I mean full disclosure, Iâm very put off by these decisions on Frameworkâs part as well, but I am taking solace in the fact that it seems like in terms of people who really care about this particular decision rather than having a soapbox to talk about the generalities of whether or not the wokes are cancelling FOSS, many other people seem to see the issues I see.
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This whole thing really leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and really Iâm pretty stunned at the extremely poor response - Niravâs initial response, etc - for reasons both moral and business related. Not everyone needs to share my morals. Thatâs fine and good. But wow does Framework have some work to do on the business side. One of the most important things a business has is their reputation. Theyâre hard to mend after being broken. And Framework is truly damaging theirs by the act of supporting (financially or non-financially) bad actors in the open source world and the world at large, but also their inability to anticipate any issue in doing so and their inability to address it well. I would imagine there is a legal team screaming somewhere. I hope there is. I hope the teams at Framework are taking this beat to assess their stance, and find someway to apologize and work towards repairing things with their customers. Iâll refrain from buying anything further from them until they do.
Now excuse me I have fascists roaming my streets pointing guns at people, abducting neighbors based on their skin and language, shooting priests in the head with non-lethal weapons, and generally goose stepping down Michigan Ave. because theyâve been empowered and emboldened. Words matter. Actions matter.
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To be honest, I had no idea who DHH was or what Omarchy was before this showed up on my Google News homepage. However, I want Framework to support the best Open Source software, regardless of whether or not the authors are âleft wingâ or âright wingâ.
I do not think a personâs Open Source project should be cancelled because of some blog posts. That idea is a threat to the success of Open Source software.
Itâs not a âwho caresâ moment for me, I want Open Source software and more importantly Free Software to succeed. Having another group, the progressives, take over our Free Software movement and co-opt it for their own purposes is harmful. I have seen how they, the progressive operate. Inochi2d is a good example of an Open Source project that was shunned by some progressives. There is no Open Source alternative to Inochi2d, all alternatives are proprietary. Yet the progressive crowd was more than willing to tell people to use Inochi2d alternatives like Live2d (proprietary) instead. The progressives are not on our side, theyâre only on our side when itâs convenient for them.
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IMHO, it went off the rails (pun intended) right in the beginning, with wild claims like this:
I hope this thread settles down finally, soon. A lot of damage to FW, hopefully we will get over from this.
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