You mean for Banning Politics At Work, getting rid of DEI, and refocusing on the actual work?
In their own private company, without firing a single person?
Those who left disagreed with the policy and chose to leave, that’s their right. Great move from them, definitely deserve applause for calling it out way before others did. Politics have nothing to do with the work of companies like Basecamp or Framework.
I hope Framework bans politics in this forum too, once this thread is done.
Sorry, but I have to call it: you’re missing the reality entirely. Scandinavian countries, especially Denmark, have among Europe’s highest per capita immigration rates. Denmark started worrying after years of failed integration, with Denmark’s PM being very specific:
We believed when people came here and were given good opportunities, they would integrate… All of us who thought that way have been wrong.
When Denmark’s left-wing Social Democratic PM says mass immigration threatens social cohesion, she speaks from experience.
Dismissing legitimate policy concerns as anti-non-white-immigration sentiment is exactly the kind of … labeling that shuts down honest discussion.
Giving money to framework is now giving money, indirectly, to fascists. There was a time when political discourse had room for respectful disagreement. Not today. The US political right is literally protecting Nazis and pedophiles, and now framework is inviting them into their “big tent”.
You accuse me of not engaging with substance while you’ve ignored every substantive point I’ve made.
DHH wrote about demographic change and integration challenges. The left wing Danish PM lady said nearly identical things: that mass immigration threatened social cohesion, that integration failed, that they were wrong to assume it would work. Is she a fascist too?
You dismiss the Wikipedia reliability markers as a technicality, but those markers exist precisely because multiple sources made unfounded claims. That’s not avoiding substance, rather pointing out the accusations have no credible foundation.
On TR’s march: DHH referenced ordinary British people (n.b including many immigrants) marching with flags. He explicitly noted these were perfectly normal, peaceful Brits frustrated with being ignored. That’s not endorsing TR’s views, or id it?
You wrote I’ll always find a way to disregard information. Yet you’ve dismissed Denmark as an example based on experience, Wikipedia’s reliability markers, and the distinction between discussing immigration policy versus endorsing fascism. You did exactly what you accuse me of.
And racist feelings? Scandinavian countries, including Denmark, took in massive per capita immigration, tried their best at integration for decades, and adjusted course based on outcomes and experience. Calling evidence based policy concerns racist feelings is…
The “what about…” strategy has been extensively used by media programs self proclaiming to be “right-wing conservative”. It’s a fairly effective misdirection strategy. Just pick something else and ask about that. Don’t accept their tangent, just ignore it and stay on message.
Cherry-picking small parts of your statement and fabricating tenous links is also another common method. It wastes your time trying to rebutt arguments that don’t really exist. Again it’s to get you off track.
Stay on the primary statement. It’s the one thing they won’t tackle head-on because they don’t really have anything.
You can also ignore calls to “stay in your lane”, “don’t say anything if you’re not constructive”, etc. They just want you to stop bringing up that primary message. It’s their kryptonite. They need you to stop saying it. Your voice matters. Don’t feel intimidated.
We don’t have a firm stance on Framework’s intentions in supporting people who spread hateful views. That shouldn’t be a difficult or controversial answer. Either you care about an inclusive open community and didn’t realize DHH doesn’t, or you don’t really care. The answer to this is substance. Everything else is a distraction.
You’re coaching people on manipulation tactics because you can’t engage with the actual facts.
There’s zero evidence DHH is far right or fascist, I’ve provided Wikipedia sources showing those claims are unreliable. You ignored them.
Framework sponsored a tech conference, not a political campaign. You’re trying to force them into your political battle. Companies have the right to stay neutral. Demanding they denounce someone or be labeled complicit is actually coercion.
At least there should be some reflection about DHH’s own writings, amongst them there are the ones where he sulks about how few real Brits are seen these days in London, and badly stereotyping plenty of other cultural backgrounds. It’s not about the labels someone has put, it’s about what he wrote and how it compares to the principles of the readers.
Also, if we’re going to speak about broad / big / wide tents or whatever, let’s use that term. Some of us expect a broader tent of principles. Beyond just repairs, particularly these days.
Someone was holding a very small wikipedia sentence, probably written prior to that rambling. The issues is that facts of this matter are written by himself.
Also it’s funny how sometimes wikipedia’s editorial bias has to be fixed because it is left-leaning, and how some other times a very smal tiny sentence is held so often and so repeatedly.
Coming back to the very little bits of information that are expected to come from this thread, I’d like to see how this develops with regards to Gnome, KDE, and others. I have to say that I was scanning the internet about Gnome’s allegedly steer, but only could find disinformation coming from a known player in that field, so I appreciate the message left by @cassidyjames and I expect to see more coming --here or in some other forums.
DHH quoted a far right figurehead (often also labeled as fascist by your standards of notability; was member of a well-established to be fascist party) as if they were the just an average dude and made him a stand-in for the mood in the entire country.
I disagree that she’s left wing. Lots of social democrats in Europe have betrayed their principles on migration to appeal to the rising far right. Every single relevant party - including the Greens and SocDems - in the last German elections was running on a deportation platform, except the actual Left party. In fact Merz just this week has mirrored a point very similar to DHHs blog post about “our cities being ruined by migration” and was widely criticized as using far right to fascist rhetoric.
Do I agree it’s popular right now? Sure. Do I still think it’s borrowing from fascism? Absolutely.
This is a misunderstanding of WP:N. Wikipedia does not assess source reliability for small blogs; they don’t include them as reliable sources just because they’re small.
The words “large gathering of perfectly normal, peaceful Brits” literally link to a Tommy Robinson tweet. I’d count that as endorsement.
These are not interesting arguments. I never anchored my assessment that DHH is fascist on fascist rhetoric not being popular and you were the one obsessed with what Wikipedia includes and what not. Aren’t you happy I’m here to tell you it doesn’t mean what you think it does?
DHH does not discuss immigration policy in substance, he’s mostly pointing at a supposed problem without even being able to establish it without quoting a far-right (in the least former) fascist and a washed up comedian obsessed with trans people. He instead invokes “Pakistani rape gangs” without any attempt to establish correlation to failed immigration policy and then vaguely gestures to “I am happy many Brits are willing to find out how to correct this”. This is racism though a far generalization with advocacy to displace migrants for guilt through association. The entire article only makes sense if you assume that migrants at large are responsible for migrant crime. The government statistics at most show that there is a problem integrating some migrants. Pakistani crime in particular is barely 3-per-1000 higher than white brits. These assessments are detached from reality. They are based on feelings. Racist feelings.
That’ll be the last time I’ll entertain your circus show, thanks for showing up.
And there it is. When faced with a left wing leader saying the same things as DHH, you simply declare she’s not actually left wing.
You’ve made your position unfalsifiable: anyone who disagrees with you on immigration gets redefined as right wing by definition, proving your point circularly.
There’s nothing left to discuss. You’ll dismiss any evidence that contradicts your narrative.
I can’t support Framework if they’re enabling the types of people that would like to see my family broken up (I’m an American, married to a british wife and am living in the UK on a spouse visa)
It’s stressful it enough being on an immigration path and having far right grifters campaigning on invalidating your VALID & Legal immigration pathway. You’re inviting people into your “big tent” that want people like me out even though we’re here legally and doing everything by the book?
There are more inappropriate (but concise!) ways of wording your stance, but we’re on a public forum.
I don’t know why you think this is a linchpin to this entire argument. Even if we agreed she is left wing, doesn’t make her position on this correct. People on the left can be bad. They can even parrot fascist talking points. SocDems in particular have a long history of alienating their left-leaning voter base with this kind of stuff - from Rosa Luxemburg to the modern day Labor party. I am also not aware of the exact wording the danish PM used here, but Merz just said something that sounds like he was reading DHH’s blog, and he’s being heavily criticized for it. By his own center-right (self-described as “there can be no democratic party right of the Union”) party too.
And here I thought Didoing was exclusively used with comparatively low-level things like content warnings and microaggressions, but now someone’s going “It’s Not So Bad” over literal transphobic murder. Cool. In case we needed any more indication.
They didn’t glaze him, they glazed one of his (and many other contributors) software projects (that are free from any hate or transphobia) which is fine.