Unfortunately, this issue has apparently still continued without @nrp providing a good statement and acknowledging that the “big tent” doesn’t mean you can’t make mistakes, and acknowledge “I wasn’t aware of those” and retract monetary and/or visibility support for projects/people that socially, the general wider community generally decides shouldn’t be supported.
It’s one thing to reply and help out users who install or use whatever distro/software, I would expect that. But actively promoting and giving money to people/projects that are (once someone does a little research) are KNOWN to have major issues, and in some ways actively act counter to inclusive support of folks, that’s something we can’t support.
In short…I had hoped to buy the next FW16 mainboard after the next AMD release to upgrade…but I’m afraid I can’t/won’t give Framework any more money until there is some level of new leadership and acknowledgement of general guidelines of what/who the company will official sponsor/support/highlight.
I’m afraid this means the probable death of Framework, and that is incredibly sad.
If Framework dies I’m not sure where I’m going to go. No other laptop I’ve ever owned has worked nearly as well with Linux (and no, I’m not buying anything from System76 or any of the European companies due to shipping costs)
For me, if Framework dies it’s not just Framework’s death, but also my ability to continue to use Linux.
@nrp has to realize that they have. This is a community driven product. The only thing that keeps it vibrant is an excited community that feels great about what they are doing.
If I was going to have a good hardware experience but feel kind of weird about it afterwards, why would I pay a premium and deal with the issues of small comapny with limited support? That’s the subjective community experience they have to manage, and they are currently COMPLETELY messing that up, quite objectively by any metric. I feel like this thread is ample evidence of that, regardless of where any individual might land.
AKA making your biggest fans feel crappy is bad business
I dunno, saying that only a third of Londoners are “native Brits”, then linking to the Wikipedia page and seeing that by “Native Brits” he means “only white British” and calls that a catastrophe that must be fought against (and there’s really only one “solution” for that kind of “problem”), how much more overt can you get? And that’s just the beginning, before he gets into his blood libel and “scary foreigners are going to rape your pure white daughters” nonsense.
I agree, but Omarchy’s defenders generally have a much higher bar to call racism “overt” (I wonder why!) and I didn’t want to argue that point. If understanding why something is racist requires briefly scanning a wikipedia page, that’s too indirect for them to care, apparently.
I’d like to point out how silly that statement is.
The leader of Lenovo has vocally stated they wanted only society’s elites to be allowed to vote. He was Literally a fascist by definition
Not to mention other companies, you may not know their political allegeances. For all you know you might buy a laptop from a racist and not know they’re racist.
The way Framework has supported for Omarchy, moderated this thread to make it clear they’re against anyone who would have a problem with that, and stick exclusively to Twitter makes them seem aligned with the techbro sphere. It’s hard not to dislike them a little for that, but harder still hard to argue most other companies aren’t as bad or worse. They just have the sense to keep their views out of promotional channels.
For all we know the C suite of Dell kidnaps vagrants and hunts them on a private ranch in Texas as a team building exercise. Acer’s management probably distributes razor blades in candy apples to children on Halloween. ASUS employees make ASUS laptops. No one is clean and we live in a Godless universe devoid of morality or purpose.
I’m aware. You dropped the context that immediately followed in my sentence though: My intent was to refer to the FOSS community specifically. Perhaps I was not clear enough.
That said, I understand your point. I’m strongly considering MNT for such reasons.
I know, but my interest is primarily in stopping the normalization of far-right politics. I don’t think Nirav is a bad person or something, and I’m not out to “punish” anyone. A boycott of Framework stands a chance to make a small difference though: It’s not too late for them to apologize for promoting DHH and to turn this around.
The thinking they’re subscribing to is that if a space isn’t entirely made up of like-minded people, then their existence becomes threatened. This behavior happens on both the left and right extremes of politics but for different reasons.
Right wing people build “safe spaces” mainly to enforce dogma and tribalism. On the left, it’s done out of a belief that any political presence that’s even slightly to the right of their political positions becomes a “slippery slope” that risks drowning them in moderate and right wing voices. Both are committing non-inclusive practices, it’s just the right calls it as it is.
I hardly think anyone in this thread is 100% a Nazi or wants anyone dead. Some people on this thread are likely suffering from trauma related to extreme right-wingers and now perceive any others’ deviation from their political positions as a threat to their lives. Overreacting to stimuli and incorrectly considering them to be life-threatening is a well known symptom of PTSD.
As for this thread, I’m not sure whether it remaining open is necessary or healthy. Framework has already literally handed the keys for future sponsorships to it’s community, which should have been the end of it. Other platforms have already accepted this compromise and have stopped taking about it.
These are absurdly incorrect interpretations of this thread. I would point out their obvious flaws, but I’ve already done so several times in this same thread and I’m tired of composing thoughtful responses to people who apparently don’t bother to read.
…are we turning into machines? It’s either 0 or 1, LEFT or RIGHT, “my way” or “the highway”? Even the slightest hint of compromise is now viewed as “either you are with us or against us” and declared a witch!
Can’t we be just humans again and accept we make mistakes and are not perfect and acknowledge differences and respect them and each other for who we are.
What have we become and where is humanity heading? Why have we become like this?
DISCLAIMER: these are my personal feelings and not insulting anyone or anyone’s opinions.
So Framework gonna die because of this fringe insane Mastodon 2 day drama? I must say I that I’m somewhat sceptic to that claim. Next week there is another crusade to champion for these people.
Framework has done nothing. They opened a digital suggestion box with no commitments of any kind. It’s a very “go F yourself” response in my eyes.
I’ve been following this company for a long time. I want to say I bought the FW13 back in Batches 3 and 6? Clearly not the most involved in community work and they don’t really owe my anything, but I have to say I’m getting pretty spooked by what I perceive as a pattern of standoffish behavior with the community. This is just the latest version of it.
It’s upsetting because I think a VC heavy US hardware company with a poor community relationship is not really equipped to give me what I’m looking for long-term. I’m getting skeptical of the very DNA of this company being different enough long-term to matter.
Framework’s radio silence is definitely flummoxing. That said, the ongoing weeks-long brigading and overall toxicity from both sides is in my opinion unproductive. Personally I think Nirav doesn’t want to jump in here anymore because every time he has it started another flame war. He may have come to the conclusion that some people in this thread will never be satisfied no matter what he gives them, and he’s waiting for the conversation to reach a more reasonable level before issuing an apology.
This exactly. It’s certainly understandable to take a day or two or three pause to internally discuss, but the continued silence from the massive outpouring of concern for a large amount of the community is decidedly weird.
Unfortunately I haven’t wanted to wade through the nearly 1800 to see any of nrp’s responses past the first one or two. Are there more than just the couple at the very beginning?
It’s also the fact that 2 of the Linux Ambassadors have publicly stepped down recently ( Stepping down as Framework Linux Community Ambassadors ). And strangely it says the thread will auto-delete in 6 more days? That seems odd…although I can believe it’s a default Discourse behavior, but I think that thread shouldn’t auto-delete IMO.
It says it will close 6 months after the last reply, which if it’s similar to behavior on Reddit just means that after 6 months with no response the thread won’t be able to receive new posts.