Full Power Magnetic Charging Card

Creators & Developers Expansion Card
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There are countless reports of magnetic cables killing devices or causing the ports to malfunction.

Volta isn’t “OEM”. Framework would be OEM for a Framework laptop. Lenovo OEM for a Lenovo laptop, etc.

But I take it you just mean high-priced magnetic cables.

For Volta? You need to look no further than right here in this forum. No, actually, right here in this thread.

If you look at Volta’s site, they make zero claims of any ESD protection. And I’ve seen someone do a Volta teardown, nothing there. Which is expected, as there is no room at all in the device end, where you want protection. You could tear one open yourself to see. Volta is not USB-IF certified. No 3rd-party add-on USB magnetic plugs are.

One needs to be careful of Choice-supportive bias. When one makes a purchase, uses it and likes it, well enough, at least, there is a strong tendency to want to feel that they made the right choice, this influences one’s judgement of information to the contrary.

Use them if you want. But you shouldn’t post as if they are safe, and as if there is no evidence that they aren’t. It encourages others to think it might be ok to start using them.

reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/motlhn/magnetic_usbc_cables_are_not_recommended

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Maybe this conversation is useful to others, but to me it comes across as a bunch of internet nannying.

How about we agree that that is a risk, put aside how much risk as there are differing opinions and we’re not going to settle it here, and go from there.

Some of us are interested in using these connectors even knowing the risks. Thanks for the warnings, but at this point you’re at the base of skydiving school yelling to the people going in that it might be dangerous.

I’m happy to hear about ways to mitigate risk, but at this point the thread has plenty of post about the fact that there is a risk, and personally it’s getting annoying and feels like it’s more of a hamper to any progress.

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I’m fine with people using them. I do take some issue with someone acting like there is just no risk at all and no evidence. As it can cause others to kill their devices without understanding that it was an actual risk. I apologize if I came off as too harsh.

People have posted about mitigating the risk. I myself have detailed the minimum you could do to reduce the risk. Unfortunately, since the whole idea is to have a plug not stick out much, it would require a custom-made expansion card. But https://jlcpcb.com/ does offer assembly service.

If you don’t care about it being as minimum profile as possible, using a USB “condom” type device, which disconnects the data lines, will reduce the risk in a plug-and-play off-the-self way. Only the CC lines, which are needed to negotiate USB PD, should be connected.

Here is the first one I found with a little googling which seems to claim PD support. amazon.com/JSAUX-Blocker-Transparent-Protect-Charging/dp/B0CCS3D2H1

PD 3.0/2.0 fast charging technology, supports 100W fast charging (20V/5A), and is also compatible with charging power of 240W/140W/60W/45W/36W/27W/15W, etc

And this review also claims it supports USB PD 3.0

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That has been mentioned here - using something like this. While I would like to use that as well, personally, I would also like to try the magnetic full data in an internal card. If someone could design a print for the adapter above, I’d love to try to out, but it won’t stop me from trying to move the magnetic connector I currently use to an internal card.

Something that I will admit I do not understand, is why the danger is so much larger in a magnetic connector vs the arc that could be created by a standard usb C insertion. Is it just the “wobble” potential of pins becoming disconnected? With the pins being so much closer together on a standard USB C I guess I’m skeptical about risk claims as no one seems to have issues with “hot unplugging”, where is seems like the risk would be just as high. Not trying to say that the risk might not be there any greater, but it’s hard for me to see why it would be so much larger. I’ve had two phones that have essentially be scrapped by someone tripping over the wire and destroying the USB port so at this point is seems like it might be the smaller or the two risks, and I get the cool factor.

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The off alignment / wobble that is possible with magnetic connectors might be a factor. But I think the much bigger issue is that during a hot unplug, normal USB-C plugs are able to disconnect power before actual physical contact is lost, to prevent arcing. The power contacts are longer. The outer long pins are gnd, the 2 long pins closer to the center are vcc. And duplicates of them are on the flip side. You can see them here

USB-C-plug-pins
USB-C-plug-pins1059×550 205 KB

On disconnect, the CC pins will disconnect first, upon detection of this, the power will safely be cut before physical contact is lost on the power pins and arcing can occur.

I get the cool factor. Definitely.
It made be buy some. Couldn’t resist just, at least, seeing how they snap in-hand. I didn’t ever use them on a device, tho. I really couldn’t once I saw how unprotected they are in my hand, and how wobbly they felt. I’ve brought several different designs.

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Sorry to go back down this topic.
I promise I’m done after this post, I just felt that I needed to add some more of my thinking to it.

Let me start by saying that I know exactly where you are coming from.
And I am not that unreasonable to imagine that Volta products are perfect (or any other product), since they as you mention they do not mention any security features.

Every day of our lives are filled of such products, and overall we get away unscathed with using them every day for many years regardless of that fact.

I never said Volta was an OEM so. It was related to the comparison of charging cables.
You have “better brands” (they care/pretend to care, and you have “worse brands” (don’t even bother pretending).

You wouldn’t believe how many people out there believe all charging bricks are going to explode just because they, or someone they know, used one knockoff product, that cost a fraction of what an OEM one does, which then exploded or caught fire.
I think most of us can agree that’s not how it works with most technologies.

That applies to everything.
The reason I got a Volta cable all those years ago was because my OEM Apple charging cable shorted out from wear over a couple of years and started smoking.
You don’t need to scroll far down in google search results to find instances where things ended worse when it came to their charging cables due to wear.

Is it perfect? Probably not, as you mentioned.
Is it safer than a regular charging cable?
I have no idea. It tbh wouldn’t surprise me if it’s about the same if you compare things of similar quality.
You don’t really get that issue with cable strain with the magnetic chargers as you do with normal chargers. Since if something pulls on it then it just disconnects, instead of bends and pulls at the connector etc.

If you just plug your laptop into a dock every day and there’s no cable strain, then you’re probably better off with a regular cable.
But if you know that you have already worn out cables and ended up shorting them out due to excessive straining due to accidentally pulling the cable etc…
Then you are probably going to be better off long term with an alternative, and that’s why I use them.

They warn about shorting on their own website at least, so it’s not like they’re pretending it doesn’t have problems.
It’s mainly focused on things like fluids and metal shavings sticking to the magnets and shorting out that way.

Being human means that you are biased, and there’s no way around that however you try.
As mentioned, there are scenarios where a magnetic cable is likely going to be safer (relative) than a non-magnetic one.

It’s not that they are perfect, or that they are worthless.

You are free to not using them, but I don’t see the value in trying to make it seem like it’s worse than it actually is.
Having plugged these volta cables in tens of times per days for the past ~5 years weighs a lot heavier for me than uncorroborated comments on Reddit posts for other brands (or no brands mentioned at all in several of them).

If someone actually proves that a Volta cable is unsafe, then we can talk about it.
Then the same for each other magnetic charger cable. Since all products are different and need to be reviewed on their own.

That said, if anyone does make a charging cable that does add these added security features then I would happily switch. Or if I found out that there is a significant risk of their cables destroying equipment.

I just haven’t had much luck finding references to it. Other brands I see mentioned. But not really Volta for whatever reason.

You mainly see people complaining about the cable breaking, but nobody I see mention any damage to their computers or phones etc. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, but it would be a stretch to call it a common issue at least.

I hope that adds at least some nuance to my take

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To settle this whole thing, I think Framework just needs to make a magnetic input module+cable combo that has the main job of protecting the laptop against spikes and surges from a misaligned or otherwise compromised magnetic connector. I’m sure the proper protection can fit inside the module space. And if it has to be power only with no data at the connector then I’m fine with that as well. This platform makes customization like this an option so I say they go for it.

I would gladly pop in a magnetic “input” (charging) module if I knew i was taking my laptop to a public or high traffic area where the possibility of someone tripping on the power cable is escalated.

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I think with Snapdragon, RISC, and 16 model, cards are a low priority for them, which is fine. The fact that they don’t have something as simple as a dongle hider card yet even with the high demand I think means and magnetic connector, especially one that would have mac level handshake protocols is probably very low on the list. The volt might come out, but to me that’s the worst of both worlds if they use technology similar to what they have released. Data pins are open allowing for your board to fry, but super slow data that is barely useful in a USB 4 world.

So, to get back to the idea of moving forward here, would anyone be interested in helping me design a print for the two adapters that seem like they have the most promise?

For Data

For Power Only

Both of these are between 32 and 33 MM long, which is just a little shorter than the cable creations extender.

For the data blocker, I think that the inset for the magnetic connector would just have to be “moved” in ~3mm. I believe the width and height dimensions are close enough where that would be a fairly easy tweak, but I haven’t had the time to learn CAD or solid works to do it.

For the data connector, I think we’d have to go with a different design as it’s as thick as the card. I think for that one, the best solution would be a two part card holder, where the usb C side basically the cutout of the extender, and then you have a “cap” on the magnetic connector side which can be screwed into the base. Essentially a hollow for the extender, with the cap allowing more rigidity and support, but you’d still probably want to add some glue once you had a good fit. Happy to dissect any of these adapters as well to confirm pins are correctly attached if I get some additional interest here.

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I’ve seen a lot of discourse about how these magnetic adapters are a big risk (what with arcing, simultaneous or near-simultaneous disconnect of CC vs. power pins, etc).

I haven’t, however, seen a lot of discourse wrt. alternative cable or connector setups that mitigate the “I tripped on my charging cable and sent my laptop flying off the table” issue, which, I would argue, is also a potentially device-breaking issue, especially for households with pets and children.

Are there other solutions to this issue that don’t risk frying the motherboard?

As a side note, I somewhat wonder if there are physical mitigation factors to the arcing issue to be had. Maybe using pogo pins with different travel lengths on the power vs. CC pins, so that the CC pin disconnects first, as with normal USB-PD?

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I use short “extension” cables. The issue with laptops and tripping on cords is that, while the force is usually strongly enough that it could just pull the plug out of the port, the pull force is unlikely to be aligned straight with regard to the port, so that doesn’t happen. Cords are flexible, they lay in any position & can be pulled from any angle. But only straight can disconnect the plug rather than flinging the laptop. You see where I’m going with this? A short extension cord adds a second disconnection point, and this one will be in line with the pull force. Trip over a cable with a short extension connected on the laptop side & the force pulls the female extension port / main cable joint apart.

I’ve used a couple different short extensions in the past & they worked when someone tripped on a cable. At the moment I’m currently using extension cables that I’ve made myself, only because I’d also like the plug ends to be as short as physically possible.

Here are a few from a quick search.
0.5 M 240W 20Gbps Extension Cable amazon.com/dp/B0D11G9CX4
Another 0.5 M 240W 20Gbps Extension Cable amazon.com/dp/B0D1TXY73M
0.3 M Right Angle 240W 20Gbps Extension Cable amazon.com/dp/B0CZHT4129
I’d say you’d want no longer than 0.5 Meter / 1.6 feet.

I actually meant to post this solution, since I do use it myself and it’s worked, but got distracted with work.

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I’d say the only way to do this right is put an unholy amount of esd diodes, spark gaps/tubes and whatever over-voltage protection measures you got on all the data pins, fortunately you do have quite a bit more space in an expansion card compared to the regular just a usb-c plug type thing so that may actually feasible but it’ll have to be done and tested which is likely not cheap.

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Wouldn’t really work. You can’t put too many (or too beefy ESD) diodes on the data lines, they’d degrade the signal too much. Spark gaps might act as tiny antennas, so probably also not a good idea, and probably not very effective either. The only safe way I can image would be isolation over fibre-optics/opto-isolators.

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Good point, ridiculously high speed data lines are a complicated thing.

You could be onto something here, not that this would not be freakishly expensive, looking at optical tb cables. But hey at least you’ll only fry your 100ish $ opto isolated magnetic card instead of the 300+ mainboard if something happens XD.

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I am thinking that there must be some way of doing it safely.
I guess connecting is not a problem because it starts negotiation with only small power. So the problem is around disconnection.

  1. electricity power does not actually flow in wires, it is the field that delivers power, so some waveguide inspired connector shape might help.
  2. have a sensor that detects any movement of the connector to automatically disconnect power. Maybe use a laser pointer and detect as soon as it strays off centre.

But all of the above needs active power to control it, so not as power efficient and green as a normal usb-c connector so probably not appealing to most potential customers.

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I guess it is a cost thing.
The solution most likely to allow safe magnetic connectors is probably something that has optic fibre for all control and data lines, and just copper or some other conducting material for the power.
If one looks at QSFP+ transceivers that do 40G as a guide for how much this might cost for the optical parts, it could be about $100-$400 each end. There is also the problem of how to keep the optics clean when connected/disconnected in the relatively dirty laptop environment.
So a nice cheap usb-c is probably the best solution and avoid magnetic connectors for now.

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Opto-isolate the data pins sounds doable but expensive, you’d basically need to fit both ends of a fiberobtic usb4 cable in an expansion card which looks plausible.

For the power bit you’d mostly just need to spam protection on the cc pins though having early unplug detection would be neat and could definitely help not blowing up you expensive optocoupled setup.

You can apparently get optical tb4(usb4 cables for less than 100$ so it would not be quite that bad.

Doing it right would also be quite expensive making it even less appealing. A relatively cheap power only option may still have a relatively large customer base though.

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Huh? at DC the power flow is electron flow, not microwave energy. Even at the 10GHz differential pair data lines it is still going to be electron flow. Any field generated is as a result of electron flow to start with. For waveguides you need some form of launcher to set uop the field.

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@Alan_Pearce
You might think that and I thought that also because my school teacher told me so. That was until someone mentioned maxwell equations and poynting vectors to me.

I like this video explaining it a bit:

I don’t think much of what I was taught in science at school has turned out to be true.
I bit off topic, but there is a title for some scientist “Particle Physics”, except that when you actually go to study the equations. e.g. “quantum chromodynamics (QCD)” you then find out that particles don’t actually exist, and it is just “fields”. I was a bit amused when a “Particle Physicist” told me “Particles don’t exist”. I then ask, In that case, why did you call yourself a “Particle Physicist”? They just laughed and said, well we thought they existed when be came up with the title, by now we know better.

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Yeah, but you require electron movement to get the magnetic field that applies to Maxwells equations. Without electron movement no magnetic field.

Magnetic fields (in inductors) or voltage fields (in capacitors) are what store energy. Voltage fields are caused by extra electrons on one plate, and reduced electrons on the other.

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Could you just use a opto-isolator IC between the data pins of the magnetic connector and the usb plug?