just a small advert on my project of a 240w PD charger. I am already discussing with the manufacturer and designer for making this project. I need some support tho.
I believe he is talking about the USB-C cable, not the mains cable.
Yeah, I’m aware of that. I meant it as what brand or where he got it from
Thank you for the extremely detailed break down of what’s wrong here, if you find a power bank that can charge the laptop at 140w or higher please post in here.
For what it’s worth I too tried the Anker 737 with a 140 cable and it didn’t work, with the known clicking sound. When I turned the laptop off though it charged it up really fast (used up over 70% of the powerbanks charge). So looks like something to do when the laptop uses power/works while being charged…
For giggles, I reached out to Anker support via Amazon and asked about this. This was their response.
It is highly likely that the issue is related to the charging protocol. To achieve a charging power of 140W, both the cable and your laptop need to support PD3.1, which means they should support 28V5A output and the cable should support a current above 5A.
Additionally, only USB-C1 and USB-C2 ports support a maximum of 140W, while the USB-A port supports a maximum of 18W.
I’m another one affected by the Anker 737 not charging, with the same caveats: tried multiple cables rated up to 240W, including the original one, trickle mode makes it work but on 100W only.
Another bit of information I haven’t see in the thread would be Linux kernel logs, one of two pops up:
ucsi_acpi USBC000:00: UCSI_GET_PDOS failed (-5)
or
ucsi_acpi USBC000:00: GET_CABLE_PROPERTY failed (-5)
Both seem to indicate issues with identifying either the cable or PD capabilities. Clearly an issue on the negotation level.
Hopefully we’ll see Framework fixing those, as I don’t hope for Anker to release any kind of firmware upgrade for their power bank (AFAIK they’re not doing so).
2 Likes
well, it’s not an Anker problem to be honest. FW needs to fix that issue. The Anker works just fine with other machines (my friends charge their Macs just fine with my Anker powerbank during our sessions at the beach;-) )
May be some more elements…
I just get this charger : Amazon.fr
and some cable: Anker 140W rated and the 240W from belkin: Amazon.fr (In fact 2 of them 1m and 2m)
This charger have a 140W USB-C Port and 2 other limited to 100W.
The 2 low USB-C work as expected at 100W with all 3 cable.
The upper (140W one) work @ 100W with a Anker battery, @60 with “standard” cable on the fw16.
But with any high rated cable (140/240W) it togle on/off like with the 140W battery…
(the mesure show switch from 20V/5A to 0V/0A end back every ~second)
So for my it look to be the same “issus” like with the 140W anker battery.
(Note: I have “old” anker 737 battery and charger with max 100W charging that work as expected. And this “old” battery charge at 100W on the 140W port.)
1 more things…
I can wait firmware update …
But can anyone (from framwork?) say if this is possible to make use of this 140W port from Anker with only fw16 update or if it need some sort of update from Anker (if possible… )
I don’t have that exact model, but I have another Anker Prime and it works just fine. I also have the Anker Reserve Core and that works just fine.
Do you have Anker Prime with 140W that work at that power?
Hi together,
I’ve got the same powerbank (Anker 737 powerbank PowerCore 24K) and the same problem as described in the first post. I’ve investigated this topic a little bit and would like to share my findings with you.
The problem is related to the specific powerbank + specific types of cables.
I’ve tested multiple variants:
- Anker powerbank (USB PD 3.1; 140 W) + PD 3.0 cable (E-Marker saying 20V, 5A max; <=100 W)
- Anker powerbank (USB PD 3.1; 140 W) + PD 3.1 cable (E-Marker saying 50V, 5A max; > 100 W)
- Anker charger (USB PD 3.0; 100 W) + PD 3.0 cable (E-Marker saying 20V, 5A max; <=100 W)
- Anker charger (USB PD 3.0; 100 W) + PD 3.1 cable (E-Marker saying 50V, 5A max; > 100 W)
My conclusion so far: Using a USB PD 3.1 compatible cable with the Anker powerbank (#2 from above) will show the problematic behaviour. All other combinations will work without problems.
This problematic behaviour can be described as following:
- The laptop tries to charge. After a few seconds the charging will be stopped and retried.
- This behaviour continues until the cable will be removed. After that, any charger + cable combination will now only supply the system with energy but the battery will not charge any more.
During #1 the following log messages will be printed:
ucsi_acpi USBC000:00: UCSI_GET_PDOS failed (-70)
workqueue: acpi_ec_event_processor hogged CPU for >10000us 8 times, consider switching to WQ_UNBOUND
ucsi_acpi USBC000:00: UCSI_GET_PDOS failed (-70)
ucsi_acpi USBC000:00: UCSI_GET_PDOS failed (-70)
ucsi_acpi USBC000:00: UCSI_GET_PDOS failed (-95)
workqueue: acpi_ec_event_processor hogged CPU for >10000us 16 times, consider switching to WQ_UNBOUND
workqueue: ucsi_handle_connector_change [typec_ucsi] hogged CPU for >10000us 4 times, consider switching to WQ_UNBOUND
ucsi_acpi USBC000:00: UCSI_GET_PDOS failed (-70)
The broken battery charging can only be fixed by fully shutting down the system and waiting roughly 60 seconds. After that the battery will charge again (given you’ll use a charger + cable combination that works).
I will try some further scenarios next week with PD 3.1 enabled chargers. I would like to find out whether this is only related to this specific powerbank or any 140W charger based on PD 3.1
I’ve also contacted support to get some help from Framework, too.
Edit:
It seems Like Framework already came to the same conclusion in their BIOS 3.04 Release notes
Known issues:
Charger support for certain portable EPR power banks.
Don’t know for all 140W… but it is the same on Anker charger 240W that have a 140W port. So may be true for all Anker 140W (powerbank & charger)
I will try some further scenarios next week with PD 3.1 enabled chargers. I would like to find out whether this is only related to this specific powerbank or any 140W charger based on PD 3.1
I can report that there is at least one working product combination with 140W charging.
I have 2 Anker high-wattage products:
- 4-port (240W total) desktop charger (top port is max 140W)
- Prime 27650 powerbank (both USB-C ports are max 140W)
When using the charger (1) top port, as reported by others, it only works with cable supporting 100W or less. With high-load cable (e-marker reports 50V 5A) the laptop charge status is flapping.
However, when using product (2), with the same cable (or cable with same e-marker specs), there is no problem. The laptop happily draws 4.0A / 28V (~110W) at normal load (battery at 45%), and jumps to 127.4W during cpu stress test.
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I think what’s happening is that when the power bank detects the cable is EPR enabled, outputting fixed power of 140W, the Framework 16 Embedded Controller ( part of the BIOS ) is trying to negotiate with the power bank using EPR + AVS, but it fails because the power bank ( output only ) doesn’t support AVS, and the FW16 retries after some delay ( I think approximately 1 seconds ) repeatedly until you unplug the power bank
Interestingly, I tested the PD protocol support with my 2 devices mentioned above, of which one works with 140W. Here are the results:
Powerbank (works with 140W):
Fixed: 5V 3A
Fixed: 9V 3A
Fixed: 12V 3A
Fixed: 15V 3A
Fixed: 20V 5A
PPS: 4.50-21.00V 5A
EPR Capable
Fixed: 28V 5A
Charger (does NOT work with 140W):
Fixed: 5V 3A
Fixed: 9V 3A
Fixed: 15V 3A
Fixed: 20V 5A
PPS: 5.00-11.00V 5A
EPR Capable
Fixed: 28V 5A
AVS: 15-28V
I’ve highlighted the differences. So, based on the results of this USB-C tester (Power-Z KM003C), the device which supports AVS is the one that does not work properly, while the device which only supports EPR with fixed voltage 28V, does charge it at high wattage.
So I’m not sure if the results are similar with a different power bank, and I can’t be 100% confident of these test results, but from these, it looks like the AVS would likely be the problem, as it works with the powerbank which does not support AVS but only supports 28V fixed voltage with max 5A.
As for the mentioned concern - how the laptop could charge with fixed setting in case the battery is already full - that should not be a problem, as only the voltage part in the protocol is fixed. Current is still being drawn only as much as needed/supported. Once the laptop is charged, it would either limit the current (amps) drawn at the same voltage, or possibly renegotiate to a lower voltage. With proper support for AVS, the device can constantly tune the voltage as well, in small increments, to provide the maximum efficiency or charging speed.
Therefore, I assume there is something wrong with the negotiation when using AVS. However, I’m unable to confidently say if this is on the side of Framework or the side of Anker charger (140W port), because I don’t have another AVS capable sink device to test on - the power bank charges at 140W, but also seems to use fixed voltage for charging.
2 Likes
Hi I ran into similar issue and wanted to mention it.
I have alza power APW-HCA82SLY USB-C replicator.
If i connect framework charged to its USB-C connector, laptop will become wery slow, and there are similar messages in dmesg:
[ 1074.236464] workqueue: ucsi_handle_connector_change [typec_ucsi] hogged CPU for >10000us 4 times, consider switching to WQ_UNBOUND
[ 1078.436648] workqueue: ucsi_handle_connector_change [typec_ucsi] hogged CPU for >10000us 8 times, consider switching to WQ_UNBOUND
[ 1087.466008] workqueue: ucsi_handle_connector_change [typec_ucsi] hogged CPU for >10000us 16 times, consider switching to WQ_UNBOUND
[ 1101.003594] workqueue: acpi_os_execute_deferred hogged CPU for >10000us 4 times, consider switching to WQ_UNBOUND
[ 1104.849760] workqueue: ucsi_handle_connector_change [typec_ucsi] hogged CPU for >10000us 32 times, consider switching to WQ_UNBOUND
[ 1115.328705] usb 7-1: USB disconnect, device number 2
[ 1115.328770] usb 7-1.5: USB disconnect, device number 3
[ 1115.354820] usb 8-1: USB disconnect, device number 2
[ 1115.354954] usb 8-1.1: USB disconnect, device number 3
[ 1115.359265] cdc_ncm 8-1.1:2.0 enxa0cec8acd065: unregister 'cdc_ncm' usb-0000:c3:00.3-1.1, CDC NCM (NO ZLP)
[ 1115.390886] usb 8-1.4: USB disconnect, device number 4
[ 1115.934868] ucsi_acpi USBC000:00: UCSI_GET_PDOS failed (-70)
[ 1116.445178] workqueue: acpi_ec_event_processor hogged CPU for >10000us 8 times, consider switching to WQ_UNBOUND
and secont try
[ 1216.409648] workqueue: power_supply_changed_work hogged CPU for >10000us 4 times, consider switching to WQ_UNBOUND
[ 1236.034202] workqueue: ucsi_handle_connector_change [typec_ucsi] hogged CPU for >10000us 64 times, consider switching to WQ_UNBOUND
[ 1243.184519] usb 7-1: USB disconnect, device number 4
[ 1243.184589] usb 7-1.5: USB disconnect, device number 5
[ 1243.217186] usb 8-1: USB disconnect, device number 5
[ 1243.217354] usb 8-1.1: USB disconnect, device number 6
[ 1243.230612] cdc_ncm 8-1.1:2.0 enxa0cec8acd065: unregister 'cdc_ncm' usb-0000:c3:00.3-1.1, CDC NCM (NO ZLP)
[ 1243.358312] usb 8-1.4: USB disconnect, device number 7
[ 1243.819133] ucsi_acpi USBC000:00: unknown error 0
[ 1243.819149] ucsi_acpi USBC000:00: UCSI_GET_PDOS failed (-5)
I had similar behavior with some noname USB-C replicator that i borrowed.
1 Like
can you report what sensors report?
> sensors
ucsi_source_psy_USBC000:004-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Voltage Back Left: 0.00 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V)
Current: 0.00 A (max = +0.00 A)
ucsi_source_psy_USBC000:003-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Voltage Middle Left: 0.00 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V)
Current: 680.00 mA (max = +0.00 A)
ucsi_source_psy_USBC000:001-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Voltage Back Right: 20.00 V (min = +5.00 V, max = +39.00 V)
Current: 5.00 A (max = +6.12 A)
ucsi_source_psy_USBC000:002-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Voltage Middle Right: 5.00 V (min = +5.00 V, max = +5.00 V)
Current: 0.00 A (max = +1.50 A)
in this case the “Back Right” is connected to a 100W power (Chargeur Anker Prime (250 W, 6 ports, GaNPrime) - Anker FR)
But with this power when I use a 140W port it do not report Voltage and do not work correctly for me…
1 Like
When I plug my FW charger to right back port with battery at 87% (charging stops at 90%)
mt7921_phy0-pci-0100
Adapter: PCI adapter
temp1: +32.0°C
ucsi_source_psy_USBC000:004-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
in0: 0.00 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V)
curr1: 0.00 A (max = +0.00 A)
ucsi_source_psy_USBC000:002-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
in0: 5.00 V (min = +5.00 V, max = +5.00 V)
curr1: 0.00 A (max = +1.50 A)
nvme-pci-0200
Adapter: PCI adapter
Composite: +28.9°C (low = -40.1°C, high = +83.8°C)
(crit = +87.8°C)
Sensor 1: +40.9°C (low = -273.1°C, high = +65261.8°C)
Sensor 2: +28.9°C (low = -273.1°C, high = +65261.8°C)
amdgpu-pci-c100
Adapter: PCI adapter
vddgfx: 1.30 V
vddnb: 672.00 mV
edge: +30.0°C
PPT: 12.25 W (avg = 5.21 W)
k10temp-pci-00c3
Adapter: PCI adapter
Tctl: +33.1°C
ucsi_source_psy_USBC000:003-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
in0: 5.00 V (min = +5.00 V, max = +5.00 V)
curr1: 0.00 A (max = +1.50 A)
ucsi_source_psy_USBC000:001-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
in0: 5.00 V (min = +5.00 V, max = +5.00 V)
curr1: 5.00 A (max = +3.00 A)
BAT1-acpi-0
Adapter: ACPI interface
in0: 17.35 V
curr1: 231.00 mA
when i plug my FW charger through my expander to right back port (battery at the same SOC)
mt7921_phy0-pci-0100
Adapter: PCI adapter
temp1: +34.0°C
ucsi_source_psy_USBC000:004-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
in0: 0.00 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V)
curr1: 0.00 A (max = +0.00 A)
ucsi_source_psy_USBC000:002-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
in0: 5.00 V (min = +5.00 V, max = +5.00 V)
curr1: 0.00 A (max = +1.50 A)
nvme-pci-0200
Adapter: PCI adapter
Composite: +29.9°C (low = -40.1°C, high = +83.8°C)
(crit = +87.8°C)
Sensor 1: +40.9°C (low = -273.1°C, high = +65261.8°C)
Sensor 2: +29.9°C (low = -273.1°C, high = +65261.8°C)
amdgpu-pci-c100
Adapter: PCI adapter
vddgfx: 715.00 mV
vddnb: 669.00 mV
edge: +31.0°C
PPT: 4.18 W (avg = 4.14 W)
k10temp-pci-00c3
Adapter: PCI adapter
Tctl: +33.5°C
ucsi_source_psy_USBC000:003-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
in0: 5.00 V (min = +5.00 V, max = +5.00 V)
curr1: 0.00 A (max = +1.50 A)
ucsi_source_psy_USBC000:001-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
in0: 20.00 V (min = +5.00 V, max = +5.00 V)
curr1: 3.75 A (max = +0.10 A)
BAT1-acpi-0
Adapter: ACPI interface
in0: 17.02 V
curr1: 605.00 mA
ucsi_source_psy_USBC000:001-isa-0000
look to be the right back port…
so we get:
#> 100W Power charger
ucsi_source_psy_USBC000:001-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Voltage Back Right: 20.00 V (min = +5.00 V, max = +39.00 V)
Current: 5.00 A (max = +6.12 A)
#> FW 180W charger ?
ucsi_source_psy_USBC000:001-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
in0: 5.00 V (min = +5.00 V, max = +5.00 V)
curr1: 5.00 A (max = +3.00 A)
#> alza power APW-HCA82SLY USB-C replicator.
ucsi_source_psy_USBC000:001-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
in0: 20.00 V (min = +5.00 V, max = +5.00 V)
curr1: 3.75 A (max = +0.10 A)
# on a 65W charger I get:
Adapter: ISA adapter
Voltage Back Right: 20.00 V (min = +5.00 V, max = +38.80 V)
Current: 5.00 A (max = +3.56 A)
Look rely there is something bad somewhere … (linux sensors report / EC report / PD negociation…)
Did some on know if we can get PD config/stat from EC ? (with ectool tools?)