Heatsyncs on Expansion Cards

Community Support
, ,
1

Hey all!

Been a happy user of Framework for about a year and a half now, and the laptop has more than exceeded my expectations. Recently I took the plunge and switched to using an eGPU, and I picked up a 1G expansion card.

So far everything works fine, all-ways-eGPU and wayland default on Ubuntu is about as flawless as it gets, and it works better than windows.

The problem is the expansion card is HOT, which is expected. I currently use for a heatsync on the primary device enclosure is my steamdeck cooler, and that’s fine, but what i’m looking for is a less intrusive than adhesive option for applying heatsyncs to the expansion card. Magnetic or something perhaps?

Anyone have any ideas or recommendation?

1 Like
2

[quote=“Sam_Clark, post:1, topic:66197”]The problem is the expansion card is HOT, which is expected.
[/quote]

Do you actually experience issues with signal integrity or other issues because of the heat? If not, I wouldn´t worry about it as it’s probably designed to be able to withstand the heat.

2 Likes
3

No real signal integrity issues at all, I just kind of want to provide as much longevity for my equipment as possible :stuck_out_tongue: and i’m never opposed to heat dispersion. I’m not a pro at the hardware heat tolerance side of things so this is all a tad new to me.

1 Like
4

Flash storage has longest life time at about 60C. it should be warm to touch but not so hot that it burns.

Framework does not recommend heavy use of their storage expansion cards.

/Zoe

2 Likes
5

For me, it is not longevity, but simply how hot the expansion card enclosure actually gets. Just last night, I clocked the metal enclosure itself at over 55C, which is hot enough to cause second degree burns with direct skin contact. (60C is far from just “warm to the touch,” as anyone who has mistakenly placed their hand on a hot 3D printer bed can tell you.) With the expansion cards situated on the bottom of the laptop, this puts one’s thighs in the line of fire, quite literally.

I get that FW is pushing limits by putting such fast NAND in an expansion card and flying close to the sun is great and all…but that all comes to a screeching halt as soon as someone sues FW for getting burned by an expansion card that is “operating within spec.”

I’m just saying they need to be careful about things like this. Noone should ever forget the lady who successfully sued McDonald’s because her coffee was “within spec” when it burned her. :man_shrugging:

6

Are we really comparing a piece of warm plastic with scolding hot coffee?

If you’re considering suing Framework over electronics being hot, you might as well sue beachtowel companies because the sun can burn your skin.

Their exist little reason to believe that anyone would mange to get burnt on an expansion card based on my experience, assuming they didn’t try.

/Zoe

7

You forget how litigious the US is, which was kinda my whole point with the McDonald’s remark. :wink: I’m not considering anything of the sort, myself, and am a huge supporter of Framework…hence my concern.

You either don’t own one of the 1TB expansion cards or are intentionally trying to gaslight my point with “warm plastic.” The expansion card casing side facing the user is, in fact, metal, not plastic, which does directly transfer all of that heat to anything touching it. I measured the metal housing at over 55C with a thermal probe directly on the exterior, not the NAND inside the case. The expansion card is using the Aluminum portion of its shell as a heatsink and that casing can easily exceed the medically established thresholds for direct contact burn risk when under sufficient load.

You dismiss the concerns of others in such an out-of-hand manner. Do you even have the 1TB expansion card? Have you felt, for yourself, how hot it gets under load? Ever had that expansion card resting on your thigh for an extended period of time while clacking away on your keyboard? Even at idle, it gets unpleasant fast. Under load, I can no longer keep my laptop directly on my lap, even through pants. Thankfully, I typically prefer to use a lap-pad surface if I’m using my laptop for extended periods for greater comfort, but the excessive heat is still a concern for anyone with more sensitive skin (or who is wearing shorts, even).

I think, at the very least, in order to cover their collective asses against such litigious risks, they should do a better job of warning of the temperatures on the product page. A properly highlighted warning - just like the Prop 65 warning they already show on the product page - can equate to millions in protection from lawsuits. Why do you think the word “HOT!” now appears no less than 10 times on a McDonald’s cup of coffee!? (coming full circle to my original point) The very essence of Consumer Protection is catering to the least knowledgeable [edit: and vulnerable] among us, no matter how obvious it may seem to you.

And, to be clear, even product recalls over excessive flash storage temps are not unheard of. Lexar had to recall early JumpDrives because they used metal for the housing and the larger size models were getting way too hot while under load. They were among the first to market with 2GB flash drives in such a small form factor and ended up having to recall them:

My whole point is, such high densities in such a small space operating at such high speeds is literally and metaphorically flying close to the sun; a fact that every storage company has acknowledged, with many NVMe drives now effectively requiring a heatsink to prevent performance throttling. Framework needs to tread a little more carefully and communicate better, considering they are such a young company. One bad recall and/or lawsuit could set them back for a decade…or worse. I would never want to see something like that happen to such a great company!

1 Like
8

I do not in fact own the 1TB card, I own the 250GB card.

If their exist an difference in construction it is very possible that your experience is different.

in no way am I trying to dismiss your experience I am sharing my own.

I did express some annoyance at your suggestion of suing Framework, a comment I find utterly unwarranted. Especially in reference to a largely debunked fable about Mcdonalds coffee, the actual case have little relationship with the story you seem to be refereeing too.

/Zoe

9

Yes, I’m aware it is mostly debunked; I merely referenced it because it has become the defacto fable about the American penchant for lawsuits over everything and anything. “Someone sued over hot coffee? How absurd!” is the only takeaway most people have of it, and that was my only purpose for bringing it up. A suit about the expansion card thermals would almost certainly be a mountain made out of a mole hill…but that wouldn’t make it any less expensive for Framework to have to defend themselves against. We’d all suffer for it in the end.

I was not, in any way, suggesting that anyone should sue…I merely pointed out the very real possibility due to the nature of the situation and past precedence in such matters. It was a word of caution, not a declaration of war. :upside_down_face:

Again, my intent was never to battle over it. It’s a genuine concern that Framework should share. As someone who wants to see them succeed and grow, I wanted to voice that concern.

As for differences between the 256GB and 1TB, I surmise that lesser density NAND is used (both common sense and cost would likely dictate as much), which would almost certainly result in lower temps under load. Just like how you can push a 512GB NVMe without a heatsink all day, but would throttle a 2TB without one, I suspect the 256GB is in the same boat.

The old JumpDrives only had the thermal issues at 1GB and larger; the smaller sizes were fine because of the lower density. Lexar recalled all sizes, but that’s usually how recalls end up working; with an abundance of caution. And we’d all think it was a little crazy if Framework was forced into recalling all storage expansion cards due to something that is mostly annoyance, but still could pose a risk to some users. A simple warning on the product page and retail box would likely suffice all around.

Sending virtual hugs your way. I never came in here looking for a fight! :hugs:

10

Easy easy folks ;o) let’s not get caught up in non DIY semantics here. I’m sure Framework has a legal department that’s smarter than a pile of nerds on a message board. I found some magnetic tape and am going to try it out on a 250gb card with a little raspberry pi heatsync.

I only ever use this expansion when it’s docked to my eGPU, so I’m not concerned about burning myself.

1 Like
11

This topic was automatically closed 2 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.