High Battery Drain During Suspend

Community Support
#12

Hello there!

I received my framework a couple weeks ago and I noticed the same thing, that high battery drain. I have followed this page to investigate. It looks like during s2idle the system spend only 50% of its time in C10 according to this command :

turbostat --show Pkg%pc2,Pkg%pc3,Pkg%pc6,Pkg%pc7,Pkg%pc8,Pkg%pc9,Pk%pc10,SYS%LPI rtcwake -m freeze -s 60

I made a few tests and came to almost the same conclusion as @Nils : the HDMI expansion card is responsible for this. Just unplugging it make the system stay in C10 95% of the time which solves the battery drain and the heat issue I have.

For science, here are my numbers:

With HDMI card

61.493130 sec
Pkg%pc2	Pkg%pc3	Pkg%pc6	Pkg%pc7	Pkg%pc8	Pkg%pc9	Pk%pc10	SYS%LPI
1.56	38.90	0.00	0.05	0.00	0.37	58.76	58.20
1.56	38.90	0.00	0.05	0.00	0.37	58.77	58.20

Without HDMI card

61.982575 sec
Pkg%pc2	Pkg%pc3	Pkg%pc6	Pkg%pc7	Pkg%pc8	Pkg%pc9	Pk%pc10	SYS%LPI
1.58	0.84	0.00	0.10	0.02	0.33	96.58	95.18
1.58	0.84	0.00	0.10	0.02	0.33	96.59	95.18

There might be a bug in the bios or the card’s firmware itself. Where can we report this so that Framework’s staff can have a look at it?

7 Likes
#13

Hi @Daouadi_Philippe

I tried this on my new framework (delivered yesterday). Linux flavor:

Linux <redacted> 5.13.0-39-generic #44~20.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Thu Mar 24 16:43:35 UTC 2022 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

Even with both the HDMI and the USB-A connected, the stats are as below:

With HDMI and USB-A cards:
61.556127 sec
Pkg%pc2 Pkg%pc3 Pkg%pc6 Pkg%pc7 Pkg%pc8 Pkg%pc9 Pk%pc10 SYS%LPI
0.48    4.87    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    91.65   91.44
0.48    4.87    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    91.64   91.43

Without HDMI card, with USB-A card:
62.126707 sec
Pkg%pc2 Pkg%pc3 Pkg%pc6 Pkg%pc7 Pkg%pc8 Pkg%pc9 Pk%pc10 SYS%LPI
0.53    0.35    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    96.73   96.02
0.53    0.35    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    96.73   96.02

with HDMI card, without USB-A card:
61.769479 sec
Pkg%pc2 Pkg%pc3 Pkg%pc6 Pkg%pc7 Pkg%pc8 Pkg%pc9 Pk%pc10 SYS%LPI
0.48    4.94    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    90.53   90.34
0.48    4.94    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    90.53   90.34

Seems clear that the HDMI card is the suspect. I also closed the laptop lid overnight and observed battery drain (~8 hours) with the HDMI card connected, and observed a 29% drain from a full charge.

I will be continuing to assess this and try out other solutions over the next few days. We do need to get this to the attention of the Framework staff.

#14

I re-did the overnight experiment with the HDMI expansion card removed, and now there’s only a 16% battery drain in 8 hours. The HDMI expansion card seems to be responsible for almost half the power drain in suspend.

#15

Maybe I’m just old, but I am not understanding why you guys are leaving your laptop on all the time like this. If you are going to be leaving your laptop unused for 8+ hours and it’s not plugged in, why wouldn’t you just shut it off?

Power off battery drain 8 hours = 0%

1 Like
#16

I’m old too. I’ve been doing this kind of thing with laptops for years. I just close the lid, it goes to suspend and I can open it several days later with mimimal drain and pick back up right where I left off.

The Framework is the first laptop I’ve had where I cannot do this any more. I either need to power it off (and indeed, sometimes I do that) or plug it in. (Or switch to hibernation, which is slower.)

Age has literally nothing to do with this. You have your workflow and I have mine. :slight_smile:

I think it’s best if we keep this thread to the actual issue rather than suggesting we ignore it and change our workflow. Changing my workflow is already what I’m doing. The point is that I would prefer not to.

4 Likes
#17

@Andrew_Gallant

I am also experimenting with the deep-sleep and hibernation suggestions in Linux deep sleep

Will keep this thread posted with the results.

Did you consider these options? Do any work for you?

#18

I’m already using deep-sleep. I mentioned hibernation in a previous reply.

1 Like
#19

I use deep sleep and it’s not enough, so I’ve switched to using both by making systemd hibernate after a few hours.

I wish I didn’t even have to use deep sleep, because it takes like 10 seconds to get back into my system after opening the lid.

My old X1 Yoga woke instantly and lasted forever in sleep. I like my Framework, but this is definitely the worst aspect.

3 Likes
#20

Because getting back to your workflow could take minutes (more time), than seconds. e.g. Various 2FAs to log into, starting apps with specific projects where you left off, certain project states…etc

1 Like
#21

:unamused:

Best practice is to shut down your laptop if you aren’t going to be using your laptop all day. It’s better for the machine, and with the speed of SSDs these days there is really nothing to it. With all the grief this suspend mode battery life issue seems to be causing I just thought I’d mention it.

Taking a couple minutes to set your workflow back up seems like a very minor inconvenience. Honestly, neglecting to properly shut down your computer if you aren’t going to be using it seems more like laziness than a legitimate workflow aide.

2 Likes
#22
#23
#24

Where’s that line drawn between 30 minutes, 2 hours, 4 hours, 5.5 hours…?

In what sense is it better?

Having the right tool doing the right thing is all about laziness. Having computers…is all about laziness. I would hate to walk over (using a car is lazy, right?) to Blockbuster to rent a video. Why do something that can be automated or have a shortcut?

Suspend IS a feature. It’s just really poorly implemented (by Intel?).

I mean, OMG, it’s a feature that’s been a feature for 25+ years… And ‘laziness’ is all you got to say about not to use it? You have issues.

You seem to be mixing up “unused duration” with “needing a resume state”. People need a resume-able state, regardless of the unused duration. The ‘choice’ between making use of a power off state, vs a resume-able state is a personal choice. Who are you to judge on someone else’s usage decision?

You are a person, a parent. Respect the other person’s choices and don’t overstep your authority. (This is a return for your overstepped judgement. Should you not have done so, this wouldn’t need to be said.)

6 Likes
#25

Could you please stop hijacking this thread? This is about an issue some of us are experiencing. If you want to go argue against the utility of suspending a laptop, please open a new topic and have fun.

8 Likes
#26

:joy:

To be clear, I don’t take issue with the suspend feature. I use it all the time; it comes in handy on a daily basis. The benefits of being able to walk away from a session and come back with everything preserved don’t need to be explained.

There is a difference between that, and closing the lid to leave your laptop in your bag for days. That is just not properly taking care of your machine.

The incredulity at battery drain is also a bit misplaced I think. People set these laptops up with the largest RAM sticks they can afford and then are puzzled when the battery drops off in suspend. The computer has to maintain a constant electrical current to hold that session in memory. :man_shrugging:

I understand the convenience of being able to toss your laptop in your bag without giving it much thought, but if the problem is “high battery drain during suspend”, then shutting it off seems like a no-brainer.

First of all, I don’t have any authority here. I’m just a regular person. Second, I was just sharing thoughts and opinions I have from my own personal experience, because I thought I had a viewpoint that was relevant to the discussion here. That’s what a forum is for.

I do respect your choice to do whatever you’d like with your computer. I honestly couldn’t care less if you ever shut it off at all. Also, I absolutely understand if you don’t like my advice–you are welcome to ignore it. :wink:

1 Like
#27

There’s an issue, something is not working correctly… It’s frustrating having to read these comments that is in no way helping fix the issue, I know I’m now doing the same.

I’d imagine months to come, people will use this thread to figure what could be a problem with their laptop, and how to fix it but will need to read through all this stupidity before finding the solution.

Please have a read.

1 Like
#28

Please show respect for others here and address the issue directly.

We’d rather not have to close the thread if there’s a legitimate issue to address.

4 Likes
#29

Hi again

The reason I’m active on this thread is to log my efforts in tuning my framework laptop’s performance and help others do the same. The comments on this thread are not complaints or cribs, they are valid concerns depending on each person’s use.

I repeated my overnight experiment with deep sleep enabled instead of s2idle with the HDMI card inserted. Over 11.5 hours, the laptop drained 16%. That is approximately 1.4% per hour.

This is a dramatic increase from s2idle with the HDMI card inserted. The downside is that it takes ~10 seconds for the laptop to wake from deep sleep. The laptop almost immediately wakes from s2idle sleep.

I will be trying some other methods (like powertop tuning or tlp) to get the HDMI card to stop drawing power. Will keep this thread posted.

7 Likes
#30

I have two USB A and two USB C expansion cards on my laptop and with deep sleep mode I observe a similar battery drain during suspend @Raghav_Subbaraman, between 1~2%/h. And this is with TLP enabled, which according to powertop sets everything to a “good” power management without touching any setting.

I don’t know if such a battery drain is normal but I tested with the two other laptops I have at home and they both have a similar battery drain during sleep. One is running linux and the other is running Windows 10. But these two machines are gaming computers with power hungry GPU and all, it should not affect suspend battery life but maybe it’s worth noting. I don’t know how it compares against other laptops of the same catergory though.

In my opinion the s2idle sleep mode consumes so much energy that it is useless but the drain seems pretty logical to me given that the machine basically stays on.

Maybe IRST is worth a try to find a middle ground between power consuming deep sleep and slow to wake hibernation ?

1 Like
#31

Thanks for the test @zoui

I installed tlp and used powertop to put everything to recommended settings too. However, these did not affect the battery drain during suspend. I might not enable hibernation for my use as I’m satisfied with deep sleep’s power draw.

I do get slightly better battery performance (while normal day-to-day use) because of tlp and powertop.

The HDMI card issue is still unsolved.