[RESOLVED] How to get an invoice?

This will definitely be the case. I don’t know why but Framework is taxing their products more or less completely wrong… So more or less we all pay more than we’d have to:

We as customers pay tax included, let’s say 1000€ to be simple. That would be 840,34€ net + 159,66€ tax for Germany (19%).
But since it gets declared gross value on the commercial invoice, we pay tax on the full 1000€, so that’s 190€ instead of ~160€ (= 30€/19% more tax paid than neccessary).

I don’t even want know about the Commercial Invoices which stated EUR but with values still in USD like yours and others… That would be an additional 10% or so.

Well, at least you (or rather Framework) paid more tax than necessary (for you), not less. :smiley:

I came to the forum because the customer support is really unhelpful. Great to see, that I am not the only one who’s frustrated about framework in that respect. Seriously, WTF? I would be surprised if it’s legal to sell products without an invoice in Europe.

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In het last few weeks, as promised I’ve set an inquiry to support as well, to ask if they could maybe retroactively provide a tax invoice (now, or maybe later if they improved their process), or if not that, a “commercial invoice” that also lists the software license I purchased (which is missing from the customs invoice).

Here’s what they told me (over a dozen or so messages):

  • The commercial invoice is intended for customs only, not for " individual use or usage as a formal invoice of purchase".
  • They pointed me to the order/shipping confirmation e-mails, which do contain the full list of products and prices (but not VAT).
  • They provided me with a screenshot from their internal order system, which does list the (total) VAT amount for the order (it’s still not a proper tax invoice, lacking VAT tariff, invoice number, addresses, VAT number, etc. but I’m considering to use it in my books anyway).
  • Framework is not currently VAT-registered in the Netherlands, that process is running but not complete yet. Apparently only the German registration is “far along in the process but still not fully complete”.

Especially the last point is weird, given that they do list a Dutch (and German) VAT number. I asked about this, which they escalated to the finance team, but I haven’t heard back from them yet.

I wonder if maybe they already have VAT numbers assigned, but not completed the full registration yet? And maybe they are collecting VAT already, but are keeping it for now until they finish VAT registration and will be paying the VAT to our local governments retroactively in bulk later or so?

Here’s one excerpt from a response that could suggest this, note the remark about “capturing VAT”.

We do not have a Dutch VAT number for Framework as we are not registered. That is all in process with the business infrastructure that is being
built out for launch, hopefully later this year. In order to have a VAT number/ID, you must be registered with the tax authorities and that in
itself is a process that takes time. As of right now, only our German registration is far along in the process but still not fully complete. We
capture VAT as is our duty by law in order to sell/ship our product to the Netherlands, but again, we do not have a dedicated VAT ID for your
country as of yet, per my previous messaging.

Looking at the Dutch rules, a tax invoice is only required when selling to businesses (plus some specific cases, like wholesale or new vehicles). Maybe some proof of purchase is still required, but not a full tax invoice (with all of its requirements).

See Wie zijn verplicht te factureren? (Dutch)

Seems EU rules are similar: VAT invoicing rules - European Commission

That does include a tax invoice requirement for selling to consumers when “distance selling when taxable in another EU country”, but I suspect that in this case (and I think this is mandated for consumer purchases by the article 33 linked), the transactions are actually taxable in the country of the consumer and an invoice is not required (that would mean that Framework is required to pay local taxes, so there is no need to go through the hoops of getting a tax refund in another country).

This is also interesting, as it suggests that DHL pays the VAT on behalf of Framework after all, which would not be entirely consistent with my theory above…

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It is indeed like this. - Framework itself doesn’t pay any taxes themselves (at least directly).

They are using the services of DHL Express, who will register the shipment at customs (on behalf of you as the receiver), pay the arising import tax, and will bill the amount to Framework (+ service fee) instead to you. (Therefore we are also more or less paying import tax on the paid tax included in the price…)

Otherwise there would have to be a customs document stating framework paid the taxes beforehand to the customs. But since they didn’t do that, DHL Express did all of the customs work.

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As soon as there will be info that framework laptop is able to issue invoices that will be acceptable without hassle for german accounting departments I will try, that the framework laptop will become the standard laptop in my company. :grinning:
That as an result of a exceptionally good experience with the customer support regarding Fan Noise (Fan noise after a week of use)
Keep up the good work!

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Great to see some community progress here.

  1. The scan you uploaded says. " Hinsichtlich aller angemeldeten Waren nicht zum vollen Vorsteuerabzug berechtigt" Does anyone know what it means?

  2. I lost my AWB / sticker on the package, so if you have the same problem here is what I did. The original Email did not have a tracking link but hub-ez recognized it and still has records of my shipment from Feb.
    Document
    In the details it states the DHL AWS “Shipment handed to coloader - DHL Alternate Number xxxx”

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I didn’t have the AWB number either. I asked with the DHL tracking number and I also mentioned my delivery address, to give some evidence, that I really was the recipient of the packet. Then they sent me the documents by email within a few hours.
I think the alternate number is the DHL tracking number.

Currently having the same problems with FedEx and shipping to germany. I’m already in Email contact with Framework-Support and FedEx-Support regarding this matter.
Thanks to the provided information here, I think I’m now on the right track. Thank you all for sharing, it was very helpful.

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If anyone could post an email address from Fedex where to request a Steuerbescheid I’d appreciate it, thanks!

I’ve used the address “rechnung@fedex.com” and asked for a “Zollrechung bzw. Steuerbescheid”. Also provide the AWB number of your package, I think it was printed on the shipping label.

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Ui, that’s all a bigger mess.
I haven’t got an invoice, too. But I try to declare my Laptop on my Einkommenssteuererklärung.
To all of you: good luck with the Finanzämter and accounting guys all over the world!

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Do you still know what kind of format the AWB had and whether it was printed on the tracking label? FedEx asked me for this information but I’m uncertain if it actually is printed on the box.

Yes it was, the number starts with “AWB” and is then followed by a 12-digit number.

Correction: It was labeled “TRK#” and not “AWB” for me.

Thats weird. I only had one FedEx sticker on the box and while there’s the 12 digit FedEx tracking number (which I already submitted) there is no mention of “AWB” anywhere.
Originator of the package is the “LetMeRepair GmbH” in Germany. It states “Bill Third Party” so maybe this local german company is the middle man in regards to local taxes for Framework.
Maybe I’ll have to write support to get ahead regarding an invoice for my shipment.

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AWB is short for Air Waybill, a.k.a. Luftfrachtbrief in German. So what you‘ll be looking for is the Frachtbriefnummer. That should be mentioned either somewhere on the package or in the tracking info.

FedEx now actually denied my request due to data protection because I’m not the bill-to party. This seems to be the “LetMeRepair GmbH” I would believe.
I gladly got a customer invoice from the Framework support which is a good base in combination with the tax information from the LetMeRepair GmbH (tax id DE266231495).

@Christian_Durselen I just searched for my shipping package and the 12-digit number was in fact not labeled “AWB” but “TRK#” instead. I just sent the 12-digit number with a leading “AWB” to FedEx in an email.
I’m sorry for the confusion.

Hi,

I just wanted to point out that I reached Framework support and they were able to send me a customer invoice. There are no errors on the invoice and VAT is indicated.

They also told me the following:

We are working on making this available directly via our website in the near future to save you from reaching out to support.

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i received my correct invoice within a few hours after contacting the support.

Nice I contacted support last week and been ignored. Having an invoice is kinda crucial :frowning:

→ Got an auto-responder. They are not working and start working on okt. the 27. :slight_smile: so let’s wait -4 days till they be able to answer (scnr :slight_smile: )