I have a DIY AMD FW13, and I’m generally pleased with it. I come from a ThinkPad background, and the FW13 keyboard is much better than I anticipated, with key exceptions.
One year in, I cannot get used to not having dedicated Home, End, PgUp, and PgDn keys. I’ve thought about reprogramming some other keys, but that’s not particularly intuitive or easy. I’m constantly getting a non-anticipated result when I try to go to the top of a document, select to the end of a document, etc.
I also very much miss having trackpad buttons. It’s just objectively easier to press those than try to get just the right pressure and duration on a trackpad click.
I’d love to see a replacement keyboard with those additions.
I came to FW largely because of the matte, 3:2 screen, and that is great (if lacking contrast). But I didn’t realize how much I’d come to rely on the above issues. I figured that a week or so would get me used to the change, just as with most keyboard issues. But these two items are making me think seriously about going back to ThinkPad, despite its many flaws, rather than making this FW my very long-term laptop. A new keyboard insert would solve the problem, and I’d be willing to pay decent money for it.
Has there been any consideration of such an insert?
Framework hasn’t talked about plans to create such an alternate keyboard. Personally, I think it’s kind of unlikely, but you never know. Note that Framework, like most companies, doesn’t release future plans or ideas they are working on until they’re ready / it’s far along and release is soon. So we wouldn’t know if they are planning it.
There has been work by a community member on fitting an actual Thinkpad keyboard into the Framework 16, and touchpads buttons. Bringing with it Thinkpad’s Home, End, PgUp, PgDn keys, and it’s trackpoint. No community member working on similar for the FWL13 that I’ve run across. The FWL13 would be more challenging.
If you’re on Linux you could do something like programming Ctrl + arrow keys for Home, End, PgUp, PgDn. Of course, not as nice as dedicated keys, but it’s pretty convenient and easy once it becomes memory. You certainly might be able to do it on Windows as well, I just don’t know a program for it myself, you need a key remapper that can do layers.
That is of course the best option, but given some of the size constraints with the 13 inch form factor, not to mention having to be compatible with the current ribbon cable that connects the keyboard to the mainboard, this would be pretty difficult.
Adding four more physical keys would require both a complete keyboard redesign and input cover redesign which would be costly both for Framework and the consumer. It doesn’t seem very worth it to have to completely purchase a new input cover deck just for four extra keys.
Currently what is common among quite a few manufacturers is using the Fn key + the arrow keys as Pg Up, Pg Down, Home, and End keys.
The Thinkpad X200 series is significantly larger than the Framework 13. They also put in a much smaller trackpad in order to fit all those function keys into the large keyboard.
The Framework is compromising on the number of function keys in exchange for a larger trackpad. Unless if the majority of people require these constantly using these four keys and are unable to work with the Fn key + shortcuts, only then will Framework likely consider making the change to their keyboard.
The only option available right now is still reprogramming keys.
Having owned an X201s and X220, they were not larger than the FW13, and they fit in a much better keyboard. I’d gladly trade a better keyboard for a somewhat smaller touchpad, but I honestly don’t think it’s necessary. You could fairly easily fit in the required keys with the current touchpad.
I understand that it would be an endeavour to design a new keyboard, but in my mind the keyboard layout is now FW13’s biggest flaw - much more so than I anticipated it would be.
I’ll look into Windows remapping, though that’s not a great substitute for real keys. Fn+ combinations are not adequate at all, since they effectively prevent one-handed operation for most functions (and I have very large hands).
That certainly won’t fly for the vast majority of users today. The X200 is from 16 years ago. If you want to talk about fitting in extra keys like PgUp, PgDn, Home, End, I’d say at least use a modern example.
Okay. Same argument for Lenovo Yoga 370, which is the computer I’m leaving for this one. Or the X1 Titanium, which my spouse has. Both have better keyboard layouts and are a similar size.
I guess it’s hard for some to visualize if you’ve never seen it in person, side-by-side to compare to the FL13. Here’s a photo I took just now. Note: The perspective from camera lens has made the ThinkPad ‘look’ not as wide…but it’s actually the nearly identical in width (X200 width 11 and 9/16 inches) :
The X200 keyboard is taller, extra row…but if you ignore the shifted-down arrow keys (because they’ve offset to the side)…then the touchpad only needs to be a bit shorter (less than 10-12mm shorter). Plus, honestly, I never fully understood the need for a ‘large’ touchpad…because I only use a small portion of it, a portion of the time (I’m mostly a mouse person). Finger travel distance…why make it a long distance exercise?
If they are going to sell a haptic touchpad, I believe they would probably just add it into the existing input cover and sell a new trackpad on the Framework Marketplace for people who want to purchase it
One issue though might be the extra height due to having to add in the haptic motors. There would probably also need to be new connectors so that they can supply power to the haptic trackpad.
The Framework Laptop 16 would probably be easier to create a haptic trackpad for although the height issue is still present.
Unless my lying eyes are deceiving me, I see 30cm width for the Framework and 27.5cm width for the Thinkpad. Or, about an inch less width on the Thinkpad.
Yeah, that will likely be the case if they have a touchpad upgrade. Though i would also like a keyboard upgrade (7-row).
There’s another thread regarding wanting a thicker chassis for the FL13. Let me see if I can locate that. Here.
See the note I added in that post. It’s a camera perspective thing. The two are almost near identical in width to within 1/8 of an inch.
Here’s another shot. Here, due to the relatively more rounded corners, it’s almost as if the FL13 is not as wide…but in fact, Framework is 1/8 of an inch wider:
When you start setting the requirements, designing, prototyping, sourcing…etc…that’s another year (especially when there’s parallel product development).
