Intel Wi-Fi 7 BE200 and BE202 compatible with Framework 16?

[James3]

I recently tried a Intel Wi-Fi 7 BE200 on an external usb4/thunderbolt enclosure: “ASMT 2462 NVME” by ugreen.
It normally takes nvme M.2 cards.
I put an M-key to E-key adapter in it, and plugged in a few different wifi cards:

1. Intel AX210 - Works fine. Passes wifi traffic and appears in lspci. Hot plug/unplug works.
2. A Mediatek wifi card - Works fine. Passes wifi traffic and appears in lspci. Hot unplug fails. Requires a reboot.
3. Intel BE200 - Does not crash the FW16, but just does not appear in the lspci list.

So, I think the Intel BE200 card is just not to PCIe spec or something like that.
Note: for clarity, hot plug/unplug is the plug/unplug of the usb4 cable. Not the wifi card from the e-key slot.

[geerlingguy]

Just wanted to post here since I’ve had a number of people pointing me to this issue while I’m testing a BE200NGW on a Pi 5 — it seems like it shows up fine on the Raspberry Pi 5 (which isn’t even x86…), and out of the box I see it with lspci. The iwlwifi driver works, and I can load Intel’s firmware and get up to 2 Gbps through my WiFi 7 AP. Bluetooth also works on the Pi, provided you use something to pass through USB to the M.2 socket.

See more details here: Intel BE200 WiFi 7 802.11be M.2 non vPro | Raspberry Pi PCIe Database

It’s definitely not limited to working on Intel CPUs.

[Adrian_Joachim]

@geerlingguy

It’s definitely not limited to working on Intel CPUs.

As far as it looks it’s mostly just not on a bunch of amd platforms. As far as I can tell it is below os level as it doesn’t even post and when plugged in later via thunderbolt it hard crashes the system with 0 logs. Maybe it’ll magically start working after some agesa update XD.

[Nicholas_Flamy]

TL:DR The Framework Laptop 16 Mediatek RZ616 WiFi card is just as janky/buggy as any midrange OEM WiFi card (even Intel). While it may be fast and low latency, if you want the same speed without any bugs/jankiness, I would probably recommend swapping in an Intel AX210 WiFi card.

I hate the MediaTek RZ616 chip and I haven’t even finished setting up the laptop. I’ve been demoing the laptop and 2 out of 2 times that I’ve closed the lid and let the laptop go to S0 sleep (Windows Modern Standby) it hibernates overnight (yay, that’s what I wanted to happen and I’m glad it seems to be following this) but then when it resumes from hibernation the next day the WiFi card takes like a whole minute for it to stop saying connected without internet. (Whether or not I let it be or I turn off WiFi and turn it back on.)

The issue that occurs has nothing to do with S0 sleep (as regularly resuming from S0, opening the lid, results in perfect operation.

The issue seems to be resuming from hibernation (and I would presume it would have the same issue with resuming from S3 sleep (if I were to enable it).
I especially believe this is an issue with this crappy WiFi cars because I’ve had this issue with 2 random ACXXXX model Intel WiFi cards that came preinstalled in 2 different desktop motherboards with included WiFi. After I replaced the WiFi card in the desktop that I still needed WiFi for (the other one I have hooked up to Ethernet and WiFi just for quick share and stuff) with an Intel AX210 I NEVER had any issue with resuming or anything.

Also, I will try to report back if I do order another AX210 for this Framework Laptop 16. (I may also try the BE200 in multiple AMD systems for the fun of it.)

[Adrian_Joachim]

@Nicholas_Flamy

(I may also try the BE200 in multiple AMD systems for the fun of it.)

You can use it like a car immobilizer, as long as this thing is plugged it we aren’t going anywhere XD

[ChristophSchmidpeter]

ChatGPT says the following in regards to this issue:

Just to clarify for anyone considering Wi-Fi 7 upgrades on the Framework 16 (AMD):

Why the Intel BE200 does not work:
The Intel BE200 uses CNVio2, which is Intel’s proprietary interface. It only works with select Intel CPUs and chipsets.
The Framework 16 (AMD) has an M.2 Key E slot that supports standard PCIe + USB, but not CNVio2.

So even though the BE200 physically fits, it doesn’t work electrically – it’s a hardware-level incompatibility, regardless of drivers.

What actually works: Intel BE202
The Intel BE202 uses standard PCIe + USB, so it’s fully compatible with the Framework 16 (AMD).

• Wi-Fi 7 (802.11be)
• Triple-band: 2.4 / 5 / 6 GHz
• Bluetooth 5.4 (via onboard USB)
• Driver: iwlwifi – included in the Linux kernel (stable from 6.7+)
• Firmware: Included in the linux-firmware package

Quick comparison:

BE200 (Not compatible):

• Interface: CNVio2 (Intel-only)
• Works in Framework 16: No
• Linux support: iwlwifi

BE202 (Compatible):

• Interface: PCIe + USB (standard)
• Works in Framework 16: Yes
• Linux support: iwlwifi

If you’re running Linux and want full Wi-Fi 7 support now, the Intel BE202 is the safest and most compatible choice for the Framework 16 (AMD).

Is there any truth to it?

[Adrian_Joachim]

No seems like chatgpt has it the wrong way around, 0 at the end is pcie and everything else is cnvio and stuff. The be200 works in some other amd devices and even on a raspberry pi.

Plugging a cnvio2 card into a non intel platform also causes it to just do nothing and not hard crash the cpu. Something that the be200 does on the pcie level reeeeally offends the amd cpu somehow.

[James3]

I saw this interesting article:

HP 331T network adapter on Asus P9D-M motherboard

It talks about putting some tape over the B side of the PCIE connector, to disconnect pins 5 and 6.

Those are the SMDAT and SMCLK pins.

Maybe doing similar to pins 50, 60 on the M.2 connector might get the B200 card working on and AMD laptop?

[Adrian_Joachim]

@James3

Maybe doing similar to pins 50, 60 on the M.2 connector might get the B200 card working on and AMD laptop?

Pretty sure I taped off a lot more than that when I first tried to get it working and it crashed as long as pcie and power was untaped. Also don’t think thunderbolt tunnels those, especially not through a m.2 e-key to pcie 1x adabter card (the adapter card has the usb and i2s pins exposed separately to plug in with cables if required.)

[Daniil]

BE200 and BE202 are PCIe/USB cards with 320 MHz and 160 MHz respectively.

BE201 is a CNVi 3 card

[Daniil]

As I said in previos comment:

BE200 and BE202 are PCIe/USB cards with 320 MHz and 160 MHz respectively.

BE201 is a CNVi 3 card

[RokeJulianLockhart]

@Daniil, instead of duplicating comments, merely utilise the response button on the most relevant, then tag both users in it, as if you were speaking to them in person:

@example_1 and @example_2, blah blah blah

[slabity]

Is anyone aware if there’s been any developments on a better Wi-fi 7 card in the past few months? The MT7925 has been nothing but absolute garbage for me, even with kernel 6.18 and the latest firmware.

Even just pinging my router gives extremely unstable latency numbers and packet drops no matter which frequency I’m on.

[jared_kidd]

What’s wrong with the Qualcomm card? That one has worked great for me for probably at least 6 months now:

[xamindar@framework16 ~]$ iperf3 -c 172.16.8.11
Connecting to host 172.16.8.11, port 5201
[  5] local 172.16.8.225 port 47772 connected to 172.16.8.11 port 5201
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Retr  Cwnd
[  5]   0.00-1.00   sec   128 MBytes  1.08 Gbits/sec    0   3.52 MBytes       
[  5]   1.00-2.00   sec   143 MBytes  1.20 Gbits/sec    0   3.95 MBytes       
[  5]   2.00-3.00   sec   150 MBytes  1.26 Gbits/sec    0   3.95 MBytes       
[  5]   3.00-4.00   sec   149 MBytes  1.25 Gbits/sec    0   3.95 MBytes       
[  5]   4.00-5.00   sec   149 MBytes  1.25 Gbits/sec    0   3.95 MBytes       
[  5]   5.00-6.00   sec   150 MBytes  1.26 Gbits/sec    0   3.95 MBytes       
[  5]   6.00-7.00   sec   151 MBytes  1.27 Gbits/sec    0   4.21 MBytes       
[  5]   7.00-8.00   sec   149 MBytes  1.25 Gbits/sec    0   4.21 MBytes       
[  5]   8.00-9.00   sec   151 MBytes  1.27 Gbits/sec    0   4.21 MBytes       
[  5]   9.00-10.00  sec   137 MBytes  1.15 Gbits/sec    0   4.21 MBytes       
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Retr
[  5]   0.00-10.00  sec  1.42 GBytes  1.22 Gbits/sec    0            sender
[  5]   0.00-10.01  sec  1.42 GBytes  1.22 Gbits/sec                  receiver

iperf Done.
[xamindar@framework16 ~]$ lspci | grep -i wi-fi
05:00.0 Network controller: Qualcomm Technologies, Inc WCN785x Wi-Fi 7(802.11be) 320MHz 2x2 [FastConnect 7800] (rev 01)
[xamindar@framework16 ~]$ 

[slabity]

Mostly concerned because there seemed to be a lot of various issues with the QCNCM865 that I’ve been seeing around:

[GUIDE] Successful Wi-Fi 7 (802.11be) on Framework 13 AMD with Qualcomm QCNCM865 and Arch Linux

I go ahold of some of these yesterday and all I can say is, they’re just barely functional on Linux right now. On kernel 6.8.2 on Arch, you need to do what @GreyXor says in the original post just to get the card to function, however I ran into several issues: Large loads, like a speed test, will cause the card to crash and become unavailable until the machine is completely powered off. Whatever happens to the card also causes the machine to be unable to reboot (i.e. Linux will do its reboot p…

Qualcomm NCM865 (FastConnect 7800 WiFi 7) problems

Of course, these are old issues at this point so they might have been fixed by now… But I also thought the same thing of the issues on the MT7295 card when 6.18 was released a little bit ago and I was apparently dead wrong on that (which is surprising because that card is nearly 2 years old now).

Being able to use 6GHz frequency is quite important to me. Having MLO be functional isn’t as important but still a nice feature to have when connecting to systems on my local network. If these still don’t work on the Qualcomm card then there’s no reason not to go for a Wifi 6e card that works better.

[ryanpetris]

Like I’ve mentioned elsewhere Intel is in general very stable and really the only problems I’ve had that I can remember is when there’s a problem with the firmware (i.e. it won’t load, can’t find the right version, etc.) which is usually quickly resolved, whereas I’ve had regular/constant problems with MediaTek, Qualcomm, and even Broadcom cards when I’ve had to use those. Therefore I’ve been sticking with the AX210 and haven’t even tried anything else recently. I’m just hoping that the problems with the BE200/202 not working with AMD is a fluke and will be fixed in whatever the next iteration of Intel’s WiFi cards are.

Given past iterations I would say that there’s a high likelihood that Intel will release an updated WiFi 7 card with Bluetooth 6 at some point; I’m crossing my fingers that iteration will work correctly with AMD…

[jared_kidd]

Some of people’s problems are because they forgot to set the regulatory domain of the card. These Qualcomm cards seem to come un-set, and when unset they will not enable 6GHz. Also, I don’t think the Linux firmware for these cards even allowed 6Ghz connections until early summer 2025. But you can see below I am currently connected to 6Ghz:

I haven’t looked in to if it is using MLO or not, but I remember talk of adding that to the firmware several months ago. The speeds I get are acceptable in either case. I have been so happy with these cards I bought two, one for my wife’s computer as well.

[AlfInAussieland]

Due to reports I had order the the AX210 before the new FW16 arrived. It is sitting here in the cupboard. So far so good, but I haven’t used hybernation over longer period yet. So should I run into this issue, I have the card sitting here to swap out.

[slabity]

That’s good to know, thanks for the heads-up! I just placed an order for one and will provide an update in a few days to confirm what Wi-fi 7 features are actually working at the moment.

[Nicholas_Flamy]

I’ve had the issue with the AX210 as well. I think it’s mostly a Windows problem. I think the RZ616 isn’t as bad as I initially thought, though I think the AX210 is still an improvement.