Introducing the new and upgraded Framework Laptop

As a linux person I wish Framework offered a keyboard without the lame windows logo on the Super button.

I pre-ordered the new DIY, 12th gen version last night. This will be my first framework device. Sadly I didnt pre-order it in time to make it with Batch 1 that ships in July. Really looking forward to my new laptop in August.

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Here’s a detailed review with benchmarks of the 11th gen Iris Xe - the 12th gen will be identical, just a little faster for the Core i7s.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Tiger-Lake-U-Xe-Graphics-G7-96EUs-GPU-Benchmarks-and-Specs.462145.0.html

In short, this integrated graphics is much better than it used to be and you can play games on it. It’s no dedicated GPU, of course, and make sure you have dual-channel memory (two matched sticks).

True, I shouldn’t upgrade now then. Looking back, maybe I shouldn’t have supported Framework as early as an early adopter.

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I’m pretty disappointed that you came out with a new Intel mainboard before providing an AMD one. At this point I’m pretty close to selling off my framework and buying a replacement from another vendor. Intel sucks at graphics and battery life, two things that are important for me. Will we get an AMD edition soon?

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I understand your frustration but there are reasons for this and good ones too. The easiest explanation is that Intel is a much larger company and is able to provide much more engineering support than AMD when designing new boards so if you only have the money to design one new board that means Intel

Ryzen 6000 is also DDR5 only, so to please possible new customers with new AMD products, they would invariably annoy some established customers with DDR4 boards that want to upgrade and re-use old parts(in-line with Framework’s established design principles)

DDR5 is also VERY expensive at the moment so that would also raise the price of their laptops, something no business wants to do and Framework being small is much less capable of absorbing cost increases like that

TBH, I wasn’t expecting Alder Lake for at least another 2 months (which would’ve annoyed me) so I would expect Ryzen boards to pop up in 6 months or so, a year at most

I understand your frustration, I felt like I was waiting forever for Alder Lake but until Framework gets bigger, there will always be a delay between the bigger players and Framework

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Community benchmarks this way: Gamework (community benchmarks)

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e-sports games like CS:GO, Overwatch, Dota 2, etc you can expect to play at 1080p at Medium or even High settings. The panel is limited to 60hz anyways so target that frame rate, slower paced games like Oxygen Not Included or Civilization you can crank the settings up because the frame rate dips won’t be noticeable

With FSR 2.0 launching, you can expect to utilize that to increase frame rates even more. It’s an iGPU, keep your expectations in check and you’ll be pleasantly surprised, I can truthfully say that the games I expected to run on an older iGPU ran excellently (Democracy 4, FTL, Oxygen Not Included)

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Just saw a review from Dave2D on the new Asus Flow X16 …looks really good.
Ryzen 6900HS, 2-in-1, touch & pen input support, 2 DDR5 DIMM slots, 2 NVMe slots, dGPU, 90Wh battery, QHD 16:10 100% DCI-P3 165Hz peak 1,100 nits mini LED panel… It checks a lot of boxes.

…and it doesn’t look gamery at all.

@Ross said: As a linux person I wish Framework offered a keyboard without the lame windows logo on the Super button
I guess it wouldn’t hurt to print their own Framework symbol instead of the Windows symbol in the keyboard. I would say it is something to consider (and quite simple to change - for future iterations of the keyboard only).
What we don’t know is if somebody associated with the company can confirm or deny IF this possibility is concrete or not.

@rn1234 said: Intel sucks at graphics and battery life
Come on… It’s not quite like that… You’re being too strict… RDN2 is indeed much better than Iris Xe, but the later is no slouch either… In terms of battery life, 11th gen Intel is really awesome (on the U series) and 12th gen has still the need to prove itself, but with more optimizations on Win11 and Linux, it is not hard to say that it will probably get there. Besides that, in terms of market, AMD 6000 U series is so rare, almost impossible to get. The only thing lacking on 11th gen Intel was multicore performance; and 12th gen is coming through to remedy exactly that.

@GhostLegion “…until Framework gets bigger, there will always be a delay between the bigger players and Framework.
Very wise words. I fully agree with you. It is hard to contain our expectations sometimes, but in the specific case of Framework, it is the right thing to do… and, so far, they have delivered big time. I think we can expect them to continue on this path; patience is the name of the game here.

@A_Fan said: Just saw a review from Dave2D on the new Asus Flow X16...
Well, I don’t want to be too harsh here (sorry), but in all honesty, if any of us are willing to "jump category" there is really a myriad of options out there.

What Framework offers that is quite Unique is really what’s hard (almost impossible) to find on other laptops:

  • some of the best quality reliable components on “thin and light” laptops available on the market;
  • simple (and relatively affordable) upgrade path;
  • easily available and very reasonably priced spare parts for ALL components;
  • concrete and simple possibility of reuse of old MB/Processor combo;

What we expect in this new 12th gen. Intel P series is that besides all that, it now will also offer:

  • a very very good performance (multicore, on heavy loads)

Just as an example, Asus G14 is one of the best machines I ever seen, but it does not give you many of the things on the list up there and it comes with a horrible MediaTek WiFi card, soldered RAM on one slot (not upgradable or even exchangeable if it gets some defect), no choice of storage size, brand, speed, generation, etc, an incredibly expensive and heavy power brick, a somewhat incomplete keyboard layout, etc.
It is easy to see that even the best of the best machines have some problems…

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Can I suggest to also put a picture of the front of the cover here: Framework | Top Cover (CNC) ?

The old top cover had such a picture and I think it helps quite a bit to see, what you are dealing with. (I.e. is there even a cog on the front?)

Thank you!

I thought that was a representation of a torx screw head :slight_smile:

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I guess that is my KDE precondition showing ;3

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Looks like the first batch of the i5-1240P is now out to August.

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Yeah, guess it comes down to what you’re looking for…something that Framework offers, or not. (e.g. Meaning at the same time, there are things that Framework isn’t offering). Just because an offering is unique, doesn’t necessarily means it meets the appetite of each user.

I have some reservation regarding the “relatively afforable” upgrade path:
Take this as as example: A fully functional i7-1280P system for $1500 CAD.
Are you a human?-34-156-290--Product

Whereas Framework’s i7-1280p mainboard and the ‘redesigned’ cover alone costs $1480 CAD.

One phrase: Economies of Scale

It helps bring down cost when you can place an order worth millions

I wager Framework isn’t anywhere close to the volume discounts that MSI/Dell/HP or any other OEM can acquire (not that I have any inside info, maybe they do)

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Yeah, the ‘why’ is fine. But reality remains that it will cost the buyer in the end…Framework isn’t a charity afterall…the buyer pays the cost. That’s why I have reservation regarding the “relatively affordable” comment.

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I do understand what you are trying to say but I disagree, “in the end” as scale ramps up, costs will come down, those saving will presumably be passed onto customers as a reward for loyalty. Even the example you posted shows that the cost for an upgrade is $20 cheaper and that is including a top cover replacement.

I’m not going to go into the math (because I’m lazy and no interest in it). But I would suspect that even the i5-1240P offers a performance uplift in both single-threaded and multi-threaded performance and likely offers better performance per dollar than the i7. So yeah, I think the upgrade can absolutely be affordable comparatively.

You’re of course entitled to disagree but that’s where I stand.

The “in the end” refers to per purchase / payment transaction. Not looking to the end of time. The ‘loyalty’ reward is hypercritical / speculation at this point (if they were to make another purchase, a 3rd purchase, down the road). (Plus, if people are buying the 12th gen mainboard for upgrade…aren’t they already a returning / loyal customer? Not seeing much reward in the $1480 price tag on the surface…maybe it’s already discounted…and is still $1480)

$1500 for a complete system that I can use in parallel to an original Framework laptop…vs $1480 to upgrade that ends up with one usable system (and a mainboard & lid on the bench). Hum…

The affordability isn’t likely going to fly for the average joe.

Time to market… :thinking: