Just arrived and display won't power on

Community Support
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TL;DR: Whatever you do, don’t detach the WiFi antenna wires.

I am returning my Framework 16. It arrived yesterday, the DIY option, and I had a 2TB Samsung 990 Pro and a 32GB matched pair of Crucial DDR5-5600 16GB SODIMMs all ready to go in. Opened up the laptop, installed the modules, closed it back up again, popped my install USB stick in and powered on to… nothing. The power light came on but the display did not power on and there was not the fan noise I would expect.

So I went to the Community and asked, and people suggested reseating the RAM, so I did, or trying each of the RAM modules independently, which I did, inserting them in Channel 0, which seemed like the right one for a single stick (spoiler: it wasn’t).

Having still had no joy, somebody suggested disconnecting the WiFi module, so I did that. As I was removing it, one of the antenna wires disconnected from the tiny little terminal on the card.

It was at this point that I tried putting a single RAM module in the Channel 1 slot, at which point, hurrah, the display finally turned on. Finally, I could put everything back, close the laptop up, use it with 16GB of RAM and open a support ticket to figure out the problem with the other slot.

EXCEPT… this WiFi module, and specifically the small plastic shield that incorporates the screw that holds the module down, is an absolute swine. You can’t insert it into its slot and then attach the antenna wires, because the little plastic bit covers the terminals. So you have to try to

  1. Attach both wires to the terminals;
  2. Gently slide the plastic shield over the module;
  3. Insert the module into the mainboard;
  4. Tighten the screw that holds the whole thing down.

And you have to do steps 2-4 without accidentally detaching one of those terminal wires, and let me tell you, those are not solid connections. The slightest tension will pop the wire off again. And if you misalign the 1mm wire stud with the 1mm terminal stud and push, you’ve got a very good chance of damaging one or both of those tiny little fragile bits of metal and then you’re just done.

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That photo is maybe 4x actual size. I’m 51 years old and I wear reading glasses, and even with them on I can’t see those connectors properly.

Look, I’m not saying it’s impossible, but I will say that I have happily poked around in and upgraded SSDs and RAM in multiple regular laptops, and built several desktop computers from parts in my long life, and I can’t deal with this thing.

Also there is currently no mention of this WiFi module anywhere in the Guides. The current WiFi Replacement Guide covers the one in the FL13, which is different. That rates the difficulty as “Moderate”; I would rate the difficulty on the FL16 with its plastic shield as “Bloody Difficult”.

I don’t know what caused the problem with the memory. It might be a firmware thing. But it might be an issue with the mainboard, and if they send me a new mainboard I’m going to have to attach the antenna wires to the WiFi module, and I can’t.

Even if it’s a firmware issue, in 2 or 3 years they’re going to release a new mainboard and I’m going to want to upgrade to it, but then I’m going to have to attach the antenna wires to the WiFi module, and I can’t.

So there you go. Years of R&D and design to build a truly revolutionary laptop, and the whole thing has been made a non-starter for me by a small piece of plastic shielding that makes the WiFi module too difficult to connect to the antenna wires.

How would I fix this? I have a couple of possible suggestions:

  1. Get rid of that plastic shield. I appreciate you seem to need something over the terminals to protect them, but if I could install and screw down the module, then attach the wires and just clip some kind of shield over the whole assembly that would be easier.
  2. Maybe integrate the antenna wire ends into the plastic shield so you clip it onto the module and that makes the connection?
  3. Just solder the WiFi card to the antenna. I actually considered soldering this one as a workaround, but I’m not that confident with an iron and I don’t want to void my warranty. I know, you’re trying to create a device that can be completely maintained with the little screwdriver that comes in the box, but in this particular instance that hasn’t worked out.

I wanted to love this thing. I wanted it to be the last laptop I ever bought. I’ll continue to watch Framework with hope and optimism, and if they ever publish a blog saying “hey, we fixed the WiFi module so it doesn’t make you cry, check it out” I certainly will.

For now I wish you the very best of luck with this admirable and ambitious endeavour.

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59

Those wifi antenna connectors were always the devil (the slightly bigger ones from the mini-pcie era weren’t much better though) but at least on the 13 the plastic bit is an improvement over not having it.

That could work.

Soldering micro coax isn’t as mun as it sounds.

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Really sorry to hear about this. I know you are very disappointed. To think that a non-diy model would have avoided all of this for you.

I think most people think that just because something is modular and made to be worked on that it is NOT a sophisticated piece of delicate computer components. Knowing how complicated all of this is, I feel that Framework has done almost miracle work in making this complexity far more accessible to the masses.

That said I am once again sorry to hear of your frustration. I would ask you to work with support and not give up on the awesome that is Framework just yet.

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What I do is either hold the Wi-Fi module in place with one hand/finger and attach the wires with the other hand, then place the plastic shield in place and screw it down. Or just screw the card in place without the shield, attach the wires, then remove the screw while holding the card down, place the plastic shield in place and screw it down.

I’m sorry such small, but obviously frustrating thing has led you to give up on the laptop all together. But obviously, a “DIY” (whether that refers to assembly, upgrade, or repair) laptop won’t be for everyone. Cheers!

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The prebuilt model would have worked until I wanted to upgrade the mainboard (or the WiFi module, I suppose) and then I’d have run into this.

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This is not new, not unique to Framework, and pretty much the standard in every laptop I’ve ever seen. In fact, here:

I sympathize with your problem, but if you think a different - less repairable - laptop is going to be any better, I’ve got news for you.

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You can’t attach this plastic shield in place, and the screw is integrated into the plastic shield so you can’t screw the module down without the shield on it. Honestly, it’s like a level 10 dexterity puzzle. The people assembling these in the factory have my respect.

It is indeed a very, very small things, but it’s a very, very, very frustrating thing, and it’s very sad, because my first-time out-of-box Framework experience has been initial disappointment that it didn’t work, followed by murderous rage because of this WiFi module.

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I sympathize with your problem, but if you think a different - less repairable - laptop is going to be any better, I’ve got news for you.

It will be better in that (a) it will probably work out of the box and (b) I will never have to touch the WiFi module.

Framework are attempting something different here, and if the industry has standardized upon WiFi modules with these horrible connectors then they (Framework) might want to look into making these parts easier to replace for people with bad eyes and fat fingers. Right now I don’t believe this part is user serviceable.

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Oh, and regarding the actual initial RAM problem, the fact that it stops the display from working is very, very bad. Nothing is worse than turning on a laptop and the display not turning on.

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That is the RAM’s fault though, or at the very least AMD’s. Just making sure you know that. There are reasons why usable RAM is very specific even though in theory many more brands will work, etc.

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Well, there’s no way to initialize the display before RAM initialization, afaik, so I don’t think you could provide a much better indicator than a status led on a laptop

But my experience with other AMD systems is that their RAM initialization is especially slow and unreliable

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Display output before memory training was never a thing, that memory training takes so long these days is definitely a bit of a problem though.

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You’re right about that. And the trend - especially for smaller laptops - is to solder the WiFi onto the motherboard. Screw up that connection, and you have to replace the whole thing…

If Framework and the community could come up with a reasonable solution and make it an industry standard, well, that would be worth quite a bit IMO.

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There are reasons why usable RAM is very specific even though in theory many more brands will work, etc.

If a mainboard and a CPU say they support DDR5-5600 SODIMMs, then any modules that implement the DDR5 spec and meet the 5600 requirement should be usable. That’s the whole point of having standards. I don’t know whose fault it is, maybe AMD, maybe Crucial, maybe even JEDEC, but it’s not acceptable.

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And to enable that there is memory training where it figures out how to use the mystery ram and that takes quite long, especially with fast speeds and big capacities.

This might actually get better once camm is used. SODIMMs are just pretty much at the edge of what is possible using the form factor.

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Unfortunately, U.FL wifi card connectors are standard. It’s just something one has to deal with on laptops.

Framework actually didn’t have the plastic shield initially. But too many people were having the connectors tear off the board. Factors align to just make those connectors prone to it. They are tiny, are entirely surface mounted, and the relatively stiff cables always connect at a right angle. This creates leverage forces. Combine with tiny and surface mounted, and it’s amazing they don’t rip off more often. Having the plastic shield on before is to reduce that risk.

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Welcome to the wonderful world of reality and AMD. Once again if you can get pass the things that have bummed you out here, I’m sure Framework support can get you sorted and your FW 16 soaring.

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Not sure where you have been, but these small antenna connectors have been standard inside laptops for many years. Yes they are annoying, but they are one of the things that allow you to upgrade/install any wifi adapter you want as it’s already standardized. To see you returning an entire laptop because of those makes me wonder.

To your points, 2 wont work because different wifi modules have the connections in different locations. 3 wont work because that’s counter to the point of an upgradeable laptop.

To be honest, I think you are better off with a pre-built laptop or at the lease, should have bought the non-diy one.

Personally, when I get old and to the point I can’t see small things, I have kids to cover that situation :smiley:

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I do think so !
I have a FW13 AMD with a Ryzen 7840U and 64Go of ram from Kingston Fury Kit. I won’t say the memory training is instant but it is somewhere around 30sec to 1mn at max.
But yes … If you don’t know the behavior, it can be freaking to have a black monitor…

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Yes they are annoying, but they are one of the things that allow you to upgrade/install any wifi adapter you want as it’s already standardized.

Except they don’t allow you to do that, because they’re ridiculously difficult to work with and very easy to damage, and in this particular case Framework have made a bad situation worse with this little plastic shield that makes the whole thing even harder to work with.

To see you returning an entire laptop because of those makes me wonder.

I’m returning the entire laptop because it doesn’t work. And yes, I am better off with a pre-built laptop; that’s why I’m returning this one. The prebuilt Framework would just have delayed this problem until I wanted to upgrade the mainboard, so I’m honestly kinda glad I discovered it early.