Oh! Ok, I was not aware of this variation.
Should not make any difference though.
I think the difference (at least with my FW 13) is that the cover can be put on after the wires are attached and the card is held fully down against the screw post. Whereas the plastic cover on the FW 16 seems to require to be slipped over the end of the card. So the Wi-Fi card canāt be fully held down while you do this. It seems like the process should be pretty similar though. Maybe hold the card down and attach the wires, then let it spring up very slightly, slide the plastic cover on, then push it back down and screw it in place?
Canāt say for sure. Iām in batch 8.
Obviously there does have to be a limit though, right?
I can totally understand the OPās frustration and if he feels this makes the laptop not suitable for him, thatās his decision. Especially since the thing that seems to be overshadowed in this thread is the fact that one of his RAM slots seems to be defective. So itās very possible that he would be sent a new mainboard if he followed through with a support ticket.
But I think if we take a step back and compare this to something like automobiles, it may give some perspective. Even a long time ago when cars were simpler and arguably more repairable than they are today, they still didnāt come with every tool needed for every job, nor could every buyer be expected to have every tool or every skill necessary for every possible upgrade or repair of that car. But that wasnāt a fault of the car or a failure of repairability in the design if someone didnāt have the tools or the know-how to replace their brake pads.
Making devices more repairable by end users and/or repair shops isnāt so much a matter of including every tool and detailed instructions for every possible repair and/or upgrade. Framework has done pretty darn well at those two things, though obviously there still are some areas that lack, as discovered with the Wi-Fi card in the FW 16. But my idea of right to repair isnāt so much about making sure every possible repair and upgrade is easily accomplished by anyone (though, again, FW has done a better than I would have expected job of this). Itās more about the fact that the design doesnāt unnecessarily restrict repair (through soldered/glued/non-standard components), and that they make repair parts and upgrade parts available.
Iām not saying any of this to lessen the frustration or difficulty Mark seems to have had with his FW 16. And obviously the start to all of this was a possibly defective mainboard, so thatās a huge bummer as well. But I disagree with idea that the very concept of a repairable and upgradable laptop is meaningfully sullied by the fact that one of the upgrade/repair tasks is difficult or is potentially made easier by tools that arenāt included.
Without a FW 16 in my hands yet, I canāt speak to the specific difficulty which is made better or worse by the plastic cover on the end of the Wi-Fi card. Though I would say it seems like the intention by Framework was good. It seems that, if anything, they were trying to improve the reliability of the machine by ācapturingā the connections to prevent them from coming loose, and possibly even attempting to aid with the ease of repair by making the plastic slide over the card, keeping the wires in place while the card is installed. Maybe they missed the mark. Thatās surely possible. But to insinuate that they are leaving repairability out to dry by using this plastic cover is a bit uncharitable. In fact, the earliest FW 13 models had no cover on those wires at all, and Framework found people were struggling to keep those wires in place while installing the Wi-Fi card, so they added the cover to improve the ease of repair/upgrade and improve reliability in use as well.
So if the current plastic clip on the FW 16 needs to be re-designed to improve ease of repair, Iām sure Framework would like to hear it. But I disagree that the plastic cover is a sign that they donāt care or did something that makes repair more difficult for no reason, or that they intentionally made repair more difficult by adding that plastic cover.
Either way, I hope everything works out for @MarkRendle. Itās a lot of money for a machine that apparently arrived with a serious issue and I hope heās able to reach a satisfactory resolution, whichever direction he decides to go.
8 Likes
The difference in the cover design is minimal, you can insert the card, attach the cables, then slide it in place.
Iāve seen this same design on HPās, Lenovoās, and other machines before, itās not uncommon. I think I agree with your car analogy however. Not everyone is a mechanic, but the fact that you can take your car to most mechanics and get a brake replacement is a good thing.
If a new car company were to release āinstant swap brakesā but required you to exclusively buy brakes and disks from them forever after, weād call that a proprietary standard, which is the opposite of what FM is going for here.
4 Likes
At least on the amd 13 itās exactly the same as you describe for the 16, I donāt really see how youād get it on without lifting the card a little.
1 Like
Could be. I never removed the card on my AMD 13. I did on my original, 11th gen, and it has a small, metal cover that doesnāt slide over the card at all.
The card will naturally sit at an angle in the slot from the teardown photos, similar to most M.2 SSD mounts.
It will only sit flush after youāve screwed down the cover.
1 Like
There are electronics repair camera setups that you can buy for $40-60. You can get over a thousand times magnification with them on the budget end. 4k super high magnification and the like will be significantly more but are unnecessary.
2 Likes
So - I am 55 years old and broke a Mac-Mini while replacing the fan because I could not see right. Since then, what I did is get myself a Magnifying kit and even with glasses, I can see the details now. Honestly, since I got that stuff, I didnāt break anything and I can still build my drones and fiddle inside computers without breaking things ā
https://www.amazon.com/Uarzt-Rechargeable-Head-Mounted-Magnifying-Detachable/dp/B08M5VCF4M
PS: Prepare yourself to be treated like a āprofessorā or a geek by your family members while wearing it 
9 Likes
I wonder if your wifi card or antenna wires arenāt damaged, or alternately, if you donāt have them fully connected.
Iāve always found these things to be surprisingly difficult to safely attach for a standard connector ā thereās a kind of balancing act where you have to apply pressure towards the center, and itās more pressure than it should be for the size. I have to use my thumbnail to press down, and then thereās a click as they go on, but after that, Iāve never had an issue with the connection being too weak to move the wifi card around.
During the last motherboard swap I did, I unplugged the wifi card and sort of wedged it outside / underneath the laptop to get it out of the way without disconnecting the antennas, and that was fine.
(edit) I really think 90% of responses are missing the problem and thereās something wrong between the wifi card and antennas (on top of whatever RAM issues). No matter the configuration of that plastic bit, the antennas should be solidly attached to the card unless somethingās bent or broken, such that the plastic part doesnāt give you any trouble.
2 Likes
So if the current plastic clip on the FW 16 needs to be re-designed to improve ease of repair, Iām sure Framework would like to hear it. But I disagree that the plastic cover is a sign that they donāt care or did something that makes repair more difficult for no reason, or that they intentionally made repair more difficult by adding that plastic cover.
I never implied Framework didnāt mean well, I have no reason to believe they didnāt. But other peopleās comments on this thread make it sound like OP is asking Framework to move heaven and earth to make a WiFi card more easily repairable in their repairable laptop. And meaning well doesnāt solve the problem (a good and honest refund and return policy does for the most part though, and I also recognize that and thank FW for it). In my post I mentioned I hope it gets addressed in a mainboard upgrade, because I realize there are limits to what can be done with what they have, just like theyāve run into limitations with other parts (the expansion cards being the most obvious example and which I mentioned further up the thread, and the slots available for SSDs being another). And Iām fine with dealing with some early adopter/early revision issues myself as Iāve noted in other threads; being an early adopter in tech can often come with drawbacks. But I also realize I wonāt be able bodied forever, and finding someone to help is not a guaranteed possibility. And thatās why I said I hope Framework takes it as feedback to act upon. Being able to do revisions on the hardware is a big plus for these machines, I donāt think itās absurd for them to look at feedback like this and dedicate some time to revising this specific part.
To summarize, I agree with what youāre saying. My comments were directed at people who have responded, in essence, āworks on my machineā. If it works for them, thatās great, but it doesnāt do anything to help OP, and some of the comments verge on insulting him/mocking him for the problems he experienced. Thatās an awful attitude to have to a problem like this.
1 Like
Sorry if it seemed like I implied that about you. I donāt know that anyone specifically said that. But there seemed to be a general insinuation in some posts that the plastic clip was somehow an affront to repairability. I just wanted to point out that if anything, it was probably an attempt at the opposite.
And I know they are open to changing things if itās found to be a big issue, since they did change the original configuration of the FW 13 because of issues with the Wi-Fi antenna wires. No matter how you slice it, the antenna wires are a fiddly pain to deal with at times, and they definitely are cognizant of the issues and have tried to mitigate them in the past, so hopefully they will in this case as well.
I donāt want to downplay Markās issues. Obviously, heās dealing with a larger hardware issue to begin with, since it wonāt boot with RAM in one of the slots. And those wires can be a bugger, even without any added shields and such. I canāt say whether or not a change to the shield would make a significant difference in the difficulty, but either way, the difficulty of messing with those little antenna wires is something people may want to be aware of before attempting any repair or upgrade work themselves.
1 Like
Threads merged since they were both addressing the same topic and contain most of the same information.
2 Likes
Hmmmā¦ That looks pretty neat. I might get one myself, even though my eyesight isnāt that badā¦ yet.
1 Like
And got rid of the āIām returning my Frameworkā title 
No, that thread was merged into the first one (chronological order). The OP is still clearly returning his laptop and has indicated this many times. We have not deleted any posts.
1 Like
Maybe you shouldnāt have bought the DIY version if you are gonna complain about the DIY part of it.
3 Likes
Iāll remind the people in this thread criticizing someone for struggling with the Wi-Fi module on a DIY laptop that Framework started pre-installing Wi-Fi cards on the DIY laptops after the 11th Gen release outside of North America because so many people (who bought a DIY laptop) were struggling with the installation. This is a problem that Framework has already seen, and the fact that this Wi-Fi card was preinstalled is because of that.
I also want to say that insulting someone else for struggling with this is extremely rude. While there isnāt much that Framework can really do about this, I can see them looking into changing the plastic shield on the 16 to make it more user friendly.
Sorry to the OP for how poorly your experience has gone, and I hope that you have a better time with whatever alternate you choose to go with. I hope that in the future Framework can become a better option for you!
8 Likes
I dont think people are really being rude because hes having a hard time, its the having a hard time and blaming framework for a problem they didnt create, and that they cant possibly realistically fix, while also pretending its just unrepairable as if there arent flocks of people who dont have any real problems with them.
5 Likes
I read through the thread, and I would say there is a little bit of each. I can agree with defending Framework being unable to rework the Wi-Fi card, but there are also constructive responses, like talking about Framework changing the plastic shield (like I mentioned in my response). This is just my opinion, but I would say that when someone is frustrated like this, especially in a situation where the original point of the thread was about RAM, and the Wi-Fi card issues were caused by initial troubleshooting, itās better to just accept their choice to return the laptop, rather than trying to convince them to keep working on something they have made it clear that they do not want to do. It hurts no one if they just return it and get a different laptop, and a lot of the responses here have gotten very harsh (as seen by the mods having to remind people to keep things civil)
5 Likes
If it really is this difficult to attach the antennas, then instead of sending back the whole device, I would cut off a part of that plastic thingy and put a piece of tape on it for isolation. I mean, it says āDIYā, right?