Interesting…
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i’ve been reading the comments and it’s a warzone, a lot of people just bashing fw and the laptop.
i’m a bit confused where all the vitriol is coming from, most of the ones i see are people complaining about the price (which is fair, i think that’s a perfectly reasonable criticism to level), mediocre screen (which yeah, not good), and just general poor performance from intel. i saw multiple people calling fw a scam, and saying “the shills would come to drown them out”
honestly i’m not sure what to make of it, i feel like josh’s critiques are valid, and because of my brain i can’t help but take the comments at face value, and it’s making me question my pre-order
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Yeah, apparently we’re in a cult, according to some comments. … Though people in a cult rarely know they’re in a cult, so who knows? 
Also, I felt the same about Elevated Systems’ review, but I’m holding out for an upgrade, which might be a mistake if Nirav ever changes his primary laptop. 
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taking the joke literally for a second i can see where they’re coming from, and honestly keeping the tradeoffs mentioned in mind i still want to get mine. none of the other laptops on the market just don’t appeal to me for various reasons, and while i’d be more hesitant to recommend this 1st gen laptop to others i’m willing to get it
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And if the founder himself likes it so much, there might be a higher chance it gets some decent upgrades! … I sound like a broken record, don’t I? 
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This review ist too biased to be taken seriously. They advertise a platform that sells Laptops, but no framework-Laptops.
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I agree with you. I too have a hard time figuring out why people get so angry about Framework. All the evidence I have working with them shows them to be a genuine company that cares about their products, the change they want to make in the industry, and their customers.
As a mod here I can tell you that we deal with A LOT of spam. Sometimes it really feels like a smear campaign.
So let’s break this down:
What do you actually get with a Framework 12?
A modular laptop that is a 2 in 1 with touch and pen input. Modular meaning that all components of the laptop can be replaced and upgraded (this would require Framework making an upgrade for that component). We have seem how this plays out across their other product lines. The display cover of the FW 13 came out with an upgraded CNC’d version that I believe is now standard. Speakers were upgraded. Hinges were even upgraded.
This is all by design. When you buy a Framework 12, you are buying the ability to use your laptop for as long as you want. The Framework 12, with it popularity, will see upgrades. When those upgrades are ready, you can buy them at a fraction of the actual laptop cost.
This is something you are getting when you buy a Framework product. No other laptop manufacturer offers this. No other one makes it so easy to swap a battery, display, speakers, power button, keyboard, trackpad, etc.
If you want to look at a performance to value angle and ignore this modular component then you will always be disappointed.
But we have long since left the time of computing where massive upgrades could really be felt. The GPU matters the most these days, and if you are looking at that in the world of laptops you are already on a steep uphill battle. (GPUs need power and cooling, something laptops are generally terrible at due to physics.) So unless you have some specific workloads with serious needs the average user wont notice a difference between the i3, i5, or i7 on a Framework 13 13th gen mainboard.
What I am getting at is that ANY Framework product bought today will be a more than capable modern computer, with some like the AMD series being cutting edge, even. The Framework 12 is no different. I love mine.
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When I bought my Fairphone 3,5 years ago I had similar thoughts.
- the device is to expensive
- some components aren’t on par with modern phones (CPU, camera)
- the build quality might be a problem (which isn’t)
- it lacks some features others have (eg. water-resistance)
But I’m still very happy with it. Yes, sometimes I would like to have a better camera, but well… It’s like it is. I have switched the battery some months ago without issues.
And it feels like doing the right thing. Supporting a company that is on a way I want to support. Support repairability and upgradability.
And as I’m lucky enough that I can afford paying the “additional 200$” to get such a device and pushing a company doing the stuff I’d like to see more often.
If everybody wants the most out of the lowest price, without having a look on the long term, we get were we are now. Ruled by company’s producing “cheap throw-away-stuff” to make people feel happy for a short time that they made a great deal. But on the long run people want more and more…
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Part of it is probably the “already not managing to keep up with their current portfolio of devices” bit. There would likely be a lot less resentment at them doing random side-quests like the desktop and to some extent the 12 if support was working flawlessly and the existing products got timely bios/ec/pd-controller/whatever fixes.
The 12 is a kinda meh laptop in a nice case imo, not cheap enough for the cheap category and too many cut corners for the not cheap category.
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I haven’t seen the video but that was to be expected.
Yes the price tag is high, and still I purchased it.
I’ll check the video later, good thing I deactivated comments in freetube 
If you can’t afford it, you can choose to seek for an alternative.
I looked at what was on the market and there is nothing as modular as what Framework designs.
It is an expensive purchase and when I received my order I was thrilled.
The packaging is quite incredible, the design with the 4 slots that I can choose, I’m paying for a machine I really own, for once.
With other manufacturers I often feel I’m actually the product.
I’ll surely continue to monitor what Framework does next, it was my first purchase from this company and their concept of a modular platform is brilliant and the price reflects it.
People can’t use common sense.
Doesn’t framework only sell directly?
Am I the only weirdo who doesn’t mind slightly larger bezels? I understand that if they were smaller, that would mean the display would be larger. So if the problem was that someone thinks the display should be larger, fair enough. Or if they would have preferred the entire computer be slightly smaller, fair enough (though I am glad they made it just large enough to fit the size of keyboard they did, because I type a lot). But so many people are like “Ugh, large bezels. Gross.” And sure, that’s as valid an opinion as any, but I just can’t find myself caring about bezel size. That’s not a criticism of anyone who does, it just surprises me that virtually every review of any device with large-ish bezels these days gets criticized for it. I guess I grew up long before screens were even flat, much less had bezels less than a few inches. I’m old, is the point, lol.
I think the review is pretty fair. Price is essentially what I say is the Framework 12’s biggest problem in my video comparing it to an HP 2-in-1. But I think there are multiple reasons for the higher price Framework charges, and one of those reasons is also one of the reasons I’m willing to pay more for Framework devices: No bloatware/adware/spyware, no oppressive EULAs, and no push to get you into various accounts and subscription services so they can mine data and push ads on you constantly. They just sell you a device and that device is yours. They’re missing out on a lot of revenue streams other companies have, and I appreciate it. To the point that even if the price came down, I’d be less likely to buy a Framework if it came packed with all the stuff the HP I tested had installed on it out of the box.
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agree, those bezels seem a completely normal size to me.
posting a side by side with my previous laptop for no particular reason ^.^
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But to be honest everyone I know does a fresh install when he/she gets a new computer. The windows-guys because they want vanilla and no bloat, the Linux-guys, well to get Linux on it. 
So I am with you, but to be honest it’s no big deal to get rid of those bloat and stuff.
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You get more screen per screen with smaller bezels so it’s pretty much always an upside to have them smaller. Chasing the last few mm is probably a bit extreme but large bezels just seem cheap and space-inefficient. But I do agree they aren’t the fw12’s biggest issue.
Kinda with you there but they just cut too many corners for that to really make sense. People that are willing to pay the extra would probably also be willing to pay an extra 50-100$ for a usb4 port or 2 and backlit keyboard and probably also be able to deal with a few mm more thickness to get dual channel ram. It’s just kind of in a weird spot proce wise.
Edit: hell I’d pay like 200 bucks for a fw12 style plastic chasis for the 13.
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Sometimes I wonder if the FW Laptop 12 should have been called the Framework Convertible instead, because so many reviews rate it as an ultrabook when it’s a different product category altogether. There is no company where the 2-in-1 machines are as cheap and powerful as a classic laptop.
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I know, and I even make that point in my video. I guess I just like that Framework doesn’t do that stuff, and I understand that it’s a revenue stream they don’t have, so it probably means they have to charge more for their devices.
I agree. In my video, I say this is the biggest problem with the FW 12, and that anyone who is just looking for the best performance and features per dollar they can get will not end up with a Framework. Whether or not it makes sense to get one will depend on how highly you value the good things about the hardware (repairability, customizable ports, etc.), or the unique aspects of the company (their mission for more user-repairable, less disposable electronics).
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The internet was never nice, but it’s become a much meaner place over the past 10 years, IMO. A lot of people come specifically looking to tear down, belittle and attack. Nobody’s really looking for conversations anymore, just affirmation that their way is right and everybody else is an “NPC”. Their opinion is FW is a scam and by golly are they going to make sure everybody knows it. Or else.
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Some thoughts:
The FW12 does have a rather difficult value proposition, especially looking at price-per-performance. Although a lot of that naturally comes down to the CPU where I have more thoughts further down. I feel like the MacBook Air 13 is kind of an elephant in the room here: you can get a M4 (which apparently is a beast of a processor) for $999. Depending on your configuration you can easily pay more than a thousand dollars for your FW12.
In the review Sierra mentions that the Tiger Lake processors aren’t ‘the most efficient’, giving you either ‘low performance’ with ‘low power draw’ or ‘high performance’ with ‘horrible power draw’. I am very interested how a version of the FW12 with one of the newer AMD processors would fare!
They also mention in the review that Framework laptops always cost 200-300 dollars more. This is not wrong and it might be the prize you pay for modularity and repairability.
And it may sound like a conspiracy but other brands absolutely do have a revenue stream from bloat- , ad- and spyware they ship their devices with. So it is more like you get a rebate from the other brands for all the data you willingly give up to them and all the advertisement you kindly let them serve you… food for thoughts.
It is also possible to keep the price of the FW12 low by ordering without the charger, memory or storage and forgoing the upgrade to a i5, too. One does not even have to mention the windows license, I guess…
In the end I think one sentence nails it. Sierra says: ‘I think a techie would love something like this to mess around with.’ The Laptop 12 might have, despite it’s apparent popularity, a smaller target group than Framework would wish for. That being said, this absolutely can change over time with the right upgrades (in the review they talk about ‘things to be addressed with a gen 2’) to the mainboard, display and keyboard, but that’s just my opinion.
Personally, I love it! Though I am said ‘techie’… I have a hardened Linux 2-in-1 I can use for hours as a tablet without the fan spinning at all.
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I feel like the average person often wants things because other people tell them they’re supposed to want that thing, not because they actually understand it themselves. The obsession with bezel size is definitely one case of that. Matters so, so little in every day use, but people they interact with tell them they’re supposed to find them ugly, so eventually they do.
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