Yeah, I agree! In the case of the Framework, while many things happen in this community forum or outside the community every day, it’s important for someone or a web media to write an article about a specific topic as a second opinion. Wikipedia encourages adding a secondary source to the content on the page. Adding only a primary source (= article by Framework) is not enough.
I actually already added the blog page above to the Wikipedia page.
I quoted your post with the review link in another thread with a call to action. I believe the issue has been summarized quite well in that thread, and it’s the thread that @nrp has already responded to before Framework, and their support team started ignoring the issue.
My wording definitely wasn’t the best. To clarify, the message I was trying to get out was more along the lines of “For those that want to continue expressing their dissatisfaction with the way Framework, as a company, is handling their own proposed resolutions to the issue that several users are claiming to have, here are some options to continue bringing this to their attention through multiple avenues.”
That just wouldn’t roll off the tongue though, so I decided to simplify my argument. A little too much apparently.
I really think Framework, in good conscience, has a responsibility to include some kind of note on the 11th gen product info / sales page with specific mention of this issue / behaviour / characteristic / flaw…
Forum posts / replies / blogs…while fairly ‘official’ isn’t the usual pre-sale product info gathering channel.
This is what we aren’t sure about since the dialog seems to be rather one-sided since the last time we heard from @nrp. I haven’t gotten any more responses to my support ticket (previously they were replying a couple times per day) so we aren’t sure what is going on. Are they discussing options internally? Are they preparing to share more info on a plan? Are they investigating how to fix? Without any feedback it feels like they are just ignoring entirely and hope folks sell their machines and stop discussing it here so the internet forgets 
This thread on same topic of Laptop will not power on
Power Button Fails to Start Laptop after a day or three switched off
Made two attempts to post this
Some confusion here. If I gave the impression that the level of charge on the main battery 10% 90% or whatever was in some way related to the charging or level of charge of the CMOS battery then I didn’t mean to imply that.
I had quoted somewhere that an interesting and detailed report on main battery state and use is available via a Microsoft utility, this is useful, but didn’t include anything about the CMOS battery state, charge level etc.
What I did post maybe yesterday in one of the three threads on the subject of the PC not powering on without the aid of the mains power supply was that the official response is that there isn’t any CMOS battery information available like voltage, state of charge etc. in a Windows utility (as there is for Desktops), where there is detailed info on 12v and 5v supplies, temp at various paces on the mobo etc. The official answer from support on info on the CMOS is an unequivocal NO.
What I have not asked is info on the voltage charge state etc. will be available in the new model.
Regards…
How are you sure? Did you get a confirmation from framework somewhere?
The issues is when both the RTC and then main battery go dead, USB-PD cannot negotiate and alongside that the 11th gen processors go into a bad powered state which is fixed by pulling the RTC.
Framework support have just come back saying the RTC needs charging. I’ve asked them why this laptop needs to be treated this way and no other laptop I’ve owned.
“To summarize, we have to plug in the laptop with the power adapter for at least 24 hours every once in a while to let the RTC recharge and prevent a low battery state resulting to not powering on if not connected to the power adapter. Can we try to plug in the laptop for at least 24 hours and see if this will help?”
Under UK law it’s past the 30 days but they do have the right to try to repair or replace. If they cannot or won’t then by law I can ask for a refund.
We shall see.
I followed the instructions as per -
Nowhere does it say to charge for 24 hours (as of today). So That is irrelevant. I doubt any other laptop would ask that either.
That is the start guide, there is a guide on fixing this issue that says charge it for 24 hours.
Yes but the inference was that I should have known about that from the start when I got the machine.
It isn’t anywhere in the initial or basic instructions anyone needs to get their laptop working.
Yes now I can try the 24 hours charge test. If that doesn’t work then I assume I have a faulty laptop and Framework can work with me to deal with the situation to get a properly working one or refund me.
The laptop should work straight out of the box, you just need to disable ship mode by plugging it in.
Guys at this stage we just need Framework to officially confirm if its a design feature or a design flaw.
And if it is a design flaw then what steps are they going to take to deal with it or mitigate it.
Is this another fault/bug that needs fixing? That’s all.
You are actually adding to much of the repetition by not seeming to grasp what some of us see as a simple situation.
Feature or flaw?
Never had a laptop in 20+ years of laptop usage/repair and support act like this.
I don’t know how much more simple I can make this. I just want clarification from Framework.
Then we can move forward.
If it’s a feature then it needs to be highlighted to potential casual users like myself before purchase. .
If its a flaw, can we have a fix or a refund? As more people buy in the potential grows for more users to have the issue, especially if it’s in the Gen12 too.
Essentially, the options presented means Framework will need to take accountability here (whatever that entails).
If it’s a feature: It wasn’t listed. Framework didn’t sufficiently detailed out this behaviour to potential customers.
If it’s a flaw: Framework needs to repair / replace this.
In either case, however Framework wants to spin it, there needs to be forward action.
For example…If the 12th gen mainboard turns out to be solid, can we get additional discounts if we decide to upgrade? Or, maybe, this is a good time to push for Framework to engineer and sell an ITX / ATX conversion kit? That way, the board can live on…in some other form.
I’m going to be that pain-in-the-butt guy:
It doesn’t really “fix” the issue…it just “gets out of the state caused by the symptom of the issue”, or “attempt to avoid the symptom”.
The outcome of having “fixed” the issue is that the laptop can be powered up, without CMOS battery pull / board reset or USB-PD plugging in when both the CMOS battery and main battery still have charge after 12 months* or more.
(* CMOS battery, nor the main battery typically have a self-discharge of 100% within 12 months)
24 hours to charge a tiddly 16mAh battery seems a bit extreme too.
Ah, this I can somewhat explain:
The charge time required to charge any given capacity battery doesn’t quite directly / linearly correlate to the battery capacity. But has a closer relationship to the battery chemistry and its designed drain rate.
e.g. if the battery has a 1mAh capacity…it may still require 24 hours to charge it
Imagine if a battery’s capacity is related to the graphical lattice below:
… = 1mAh
… = 2mAh
…
The lattice run in parallel to give that capacity. The rate to charge 1 lattice, or 2 is the same…doesn’t go any faster.