Yes, it’s version 3.07. I have tried a different order of things to see if can figure it out but no.
Right, a somewhat definitive answer from support that suggests this will always be a problem.
"The RTC battery can get drained when the computer is not in use and is not plugged into the charger. The RTC battery will last a maximum of 2-3 weeks in this state before being drained below a level where it can function properly.
The battery powers the real-time clock of the mainboard’s chip that wakes up the circuitry and is responsible for holding the status of the circuitry while it is turned off as well. That means that when the laptop is completely off, the RTC battery is continuously used by the MB circuitry and gets drained of its stored power.
With the RTC battery in a drained state, the RTC needs to be removed for at least 15 minutes and then placed back in (after the trickle charge of at least 24hrs). Removing the battery allows it to rest from the continuous drain placed on it by the MB circuitry. It can recover some of its charges to a minimal level where it can function and allow the laptop to be powered up and booted again. At this point, the laptop will need to be charged continuously for at least 24 hours for the RTC battery to regain a full state of charge.
The difference between rechargeable & non-rechargeable RTC batteries is their chemical compositions & their physical sizes depending on the motherboard that it is meant for.
The reason why we use the rechargeable one is that it inclines with our principle of reducing e-waste & be sustainable for our environment."
A design issue? To me, definitely. So, it seems, the only way around this is to upgrade to a 12th gen mainboard. Make of it what you will.
Now I can see why people have a problem. Thanks for the detail.
There could have been a warning in the specs. Do not leave unattended for 2 weeks
And of course for some slow deliveries it’s a worry for new users who have no idea of what is going on. Very sad
The reasoning, saving energy in throwaway batteries is highly questionable.
- will the recharchargable batteries last any longer ~ I doubt it
- the possibilites of breaking the holder.
- all the extra energy used by the user when they have to remove and reset.
- that it is not convenient to store the laptop for maybe two weeks
It all seems a huge expense and cost to human suffering and the consequential need to mitigate. I need a drink just thinking of it and now I may have sleepness nights wondering if I’ve slept too long.
OH! and no doubt as the battery ages the 2 to 3 weeks will become 2 to 3 days.
When I get over how upset I find this, in few weeks maybe, I’l; consider sending Framework a ‘letter’ of dissapointment.
I still don’t understand why a CMOS battery would experience such a high level of drain. It won’t even last longer because of the repeated charge/discharge cycles. This problem, in effect, makes the laptop semi productive. I still think Framework should make some real offers of redress. Swapping boards at half price is an option that I would accept, although people would still be out of pocket. I really want to support this company, but they should have made sure this kind of thing wasn’t an issue before production.
Exactly ?? I’m pretty sure I will ‘write’ to them it’s seems non-sensicle and I hope there’s a workaround. ?? can’t we have wishes without the begging nature.
There must be a solution other than changing boards.
I’ll have to read all the posts again, I’m not clear, as at some point there is the statement that ‘the battery drain’ has been resolved . I then suppose this is the main battery.
You’d hope so. But, if the boards are designed a certain way and you can’t stop the RTC battery from draining below a certain level, I don’t see how.
This suggests to me that it is predominantly a hardware issue.
The really annoying thing is that, obviously, these forums are monitored, a lot of users are facing this issue, and framework seem to be completely ducking the issue as though it’s not their problem.
I haven’t seen any official response.
It is rather concerning that Framework hasn’t come out with a general statement regarding this issue. Back when I contacted support about my “excessive battery drain when completely shut down issue”, all I got was a “this is normal, sorry about your luck” email.
They really need to step up, and make some kind of statement, be it good, bad, or otherwise.
P.S. Despite this issue, my Framework laptop is hands-down my favorite laptop I’ve ever owned, and I’ve been a software engineer for 30+ years now. If they can just improve the battery drain issue, I’ll be a happy camper and tell everyone I know how great Framework products are.
Yeap! that’s the way I see it.
It is still unclear when battery drain is mentioned if a person is referring to
a) The main battery drain, which apparently was fixed in 3.07 or
b) The RTC battery drain which leaves a risk of powering on failure if the laptop is left unused.
The second one is more the issue of not powering on, though on receipt of the laptop that is the deafult.
Yeah, sorry, I should have been more clear. My problem is that the battery drains excessively when the laptop is in a complete shutdown/powered off state. Regardless, these issues are all interrelated.
I initially had the “laptop won’t power on unless I plug in the AC power” issues too, but the 3.07 bios fixed that one for me. However now, if I leave the laptop sitting in its bag, completely power off, I have excessive battery drain the next time I boot it up. As a work-around, I have to enter BIOS prior to shutting down and enable the 'battery disconnect". It’s a real PITA and I’m hoping the 3.08 bios (if it ever comes out), will help with this issue.
I note that new Framework laptops ship with “battery disconnect” enabled, which leads me to believe that they were well aware of the battery drain issue already…
That’s actually the current industry behaviour…even for ThinkPads (since a few generations back).
I tend to buy 2-3 laptops per CPU generation, so I typically compare laptops of the same generation…instead of comparing laptops across generations.
The RTC battery issue is, by far, the worst case. Expecting users to go through an invasive and protracted reset procedure after a few weeks inactivity is completely unreasonable and in UK law, makes the machine “not fit for purpose.” the only time you should need to remove a CMOS battery is when the battery is “end of life” and needs replacing.
As already stated, a clear explanation of the chances of a fix should be addressed. The few support messages I’ve sent, they ignore the question or seem to talk aound the issue. I gave up in the end.
At this point, I wish there’s a collaboration between Framework and, say, Asus, to work this shxt out. The inexperience (in anything and everything mainboard related) here is coming through. (Not because of having issues…but having unresolved issues for so long)
Plus, ideally, the mission is for Framework to provide the framework and steer the course of consumer electronics. I wish other manufacters would come in and provide mainboard alternatives / variations.
Trust me, I’m buying the Framework ideas, great support, modularity, repairability, parts availability…etc. But the actual product needs to step up. The ‘platform’ is great…but there are some real gaps to be addressed.
A correct official response would be:
We are sorry for the problem you are experiencing, this was due to an engineering oversight etc.
We are working on the issue and believe it can be fixed by a software patch.
We are sorry for the problem you are experiencing, this is a hardware problem that can’t be fixed with a patch. Therefore, we intend to do xyz to resolve the issue.
Yeah, that too. There’s a lack of official public clarity as to whether the issues will be addressed, and how and when.
And, as I’ve stated, I really want to support the company, but, I also want a correctly working machine.
I’d be interested to hear Linus from LTT’s take on the RTC battery drain as a large shareholder. He would definitely be able to put some pressure on Framework to get some answers from them at least, and could put the issue in the spotlight of all the poeple that bought a Framework laptop because of his glowing review. (I’m included in that group to be fair.)
Wasn’t it only 250k USD or something?
Granted, I don’t know off the top of my head if he said how much he invested, but I know he mentioned that it would be detrimental to Framework if he dumped all of it because they went back on their word.
So to answer your question, i believe he is a large enough investor for what I suggested.
Good on you for keeping me honest.