Make Laptops Thicker Again

Framework Laptop 16
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Lemme start with some background for myself: I built my first computer on an AMD Cyrix K6-2, 266MHZ, back in probably…. 1998 maybe? AMD Mach 64, 32 meg, 64 MB of system RAM. Legitimately? I may have been the first kid ever to have fiber-optic networking in a house; my dad did product testing, and development. He helped load the first code for the bootloader for PXE boot for all Intel NIC’s, among many, many other things. I’ve been around a while, and done everything from house-call computer repair to travelling professional services consultant work. I have a lot of hobbies, including electrical engineering and mechanical engineering, and I would like to think I have a decent understanding of what it takes to make the Framework hardware. I compromised in buying the Framework 16, and I hate that I still had to. I’m not sure exactly when I ordered mine, but it was somewhere between preorder and first general-availability.

OK, so…. TL; DR: I had a keyboard failure as my first problem. I ordered after Louis Rossman advocated for them, plus or minus a few months, plus however long it took to budget for mine. I’ve had issues with my keyboard W key for a few weeks now, maybe a lot longer, and I just had to order a replacement keyboard. Compared to an HP where I can pay $30, maybe even $20 for a mass-produced aftermarket part HP has already abandoned for tax purposes? Yeah, I paid $60 to replace my keyboard. I get Framework can’t compete in that. I’m in the US, and even with tariffs, that’s fair, in this crazy world. Having a keyboard that lasts 2 years? isn’t. And I recognize, this isn’t Framework’s fault per-se, the switch design is inherently flawed, and I used to have to replace HP laptop keyboards every few years, and this isn’t new.

As a piece of feedback, and to call this out, I’d like to call out with what I’ve struggled with so far, and what I wish Framework would have committed to, prior to my buying into their ecosystem.

First and foremost: mechanical (ideally hot-swap) keyboard keys. I’d have paid an extra $300 more for a chassis that had that, with TEN (gasp, also, you heard me) more MM of stack height to accommodate. Most bags that fit a 16 can support TWO laptops stacked, so height is less critical than the designers think. I want to turn the Framework’s products from an appliance into a forever-object for me, emotionally. Hell, given the option I’d have even paid extra for my own type of mechanical switches in a batch. Make the damn laptop thicker, I’d have loved that, and it’s the right direction to take this for the reliability, replaceability, and customizability. You’re fighting SO MUCH with trying to make it thin and sexy. Make it a forever object you can upgrade and love and cherish. I have to pay $60 rather than just swap out one damn switch for wearing it out in my FPS use. (of which, I’m an absolute casual gamer, and also have a gaming desktop and mechanical keyboard (ZSA Voyager for those who are curious, I love the feel, but get the layout isn’t ideal for everyone, and I could compromise for a “traditional” layout given the option to customize with what I do want, which is UX niceties.

Secondarily: I normally run with a 10-key, and touchpad left-justified; the side-inserts for the touchpad don’t align well vertically with the aluminum of the touchpad, and I’ve lightly bent all the parts trying my best to mitigate this, but due to the padded coupling mechanism the designers opted for, there’s always going to be play, and therefore sharp edges you rub your hands upon. I’d love a full-width monolithic touchpad card. I’m considering incorporating a sexy wood-grain one if I end up designing my own, thicker, chassis. Moving my right hand between home position and 10-key on a regular basis, catching the lip of the edges of those side cards drives me absolutely nuts and if I were to give any feedback, it’d be that.

So I ask: has anyone started work on a thicker, mechanical-keyboard chassis for the 16”? I’m maybe… a year out from being able to have time and motivation to do this myself, but ….if Framework proper isn’t there yet, (and I get why it’s a big ask, business-wise,) I would spend $1000 on raw material to design my own, to manufacture a final product. …and my own time and effort if it were me to upgrade. I have means, and I fully expect to spend 2-3 (realistically, probably 5-10) times that in developing once I get stuck in.

If Framework isn’t interested, I may be interested in monetizing this as a competing hardware manufacturer and making this a business venture. Either for them to buy out eventually if I succeed, or to at least prove a point and show it’s possible. I don’t know yet, I’m just ….frustrated, and feeling out how much it matters to me. I’m ….open to fighting Framework in the market, if I have to, to make what I want happen. I’d love to not have that happen, and want to not consider them an en*sh*tt*f*ed endless-churn for hardware that ends up in the landfill.

If anyone is already part-way through their own struggle to make this happen? I’d love to invest in you, and I get the labor of love, that takes will and means, to bring to fruition. If Framework is willing to bounty innovative designs…. I’d be more motivated.

Thank you for your time.

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I’ve been using a Toughbook CF-53 for years. My FW16 should arrive soon. I’d love to see a chassis for the FW16 that can compete with the indestructible nature of the Toughbook. Some extra space for internal peripherals (mPCIE LTE modem, a second Wi-Fi card, etc.) would be awesome. Better yet, a dual hot-swappable battery system.

I agree that there seems to be a struggle between the sleek macesque aesthetic that all modern hardware manufacturers seem to be aiming for and the desires of the community. I don’t want a 2mm thick cell phone that shatters if you look at it sideways. I want a cell phone that takes two 18650 batteries, lasts two weeks on one charge, and will still be in prime condition after I run over it with my excavator.

You could always make an aftermarket chassis that accepts framework internals. There should be enough documentation in their github repos to get started. That way the annoying parts are taken care of, and you can focus on the mods you want. A 3d printed frame for a cheap “mystery box” motherboard may be the easiest way to start working on your project.

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I mean, in all things there’s balances and practicalities to be had. I’ve carried devices with 18650’s and…. those get old fast, even if you charge them once a month. (look at Meshtastic if you want to know some of the stuff I’ve dived into) The 13” just got a mechanical key chassis from the community. It’s why I bring this up. I think there’s value in rewarding those who strive to make what a company can’t with their own risk appetite, and I want to make that rewarding for everyone, not just me. I hear you on that though, the ease of a fast-and-easy swap? is appealing. I’m…. I get your want, and see you in that, but I also don’t argue for that in a Framework, as that becomes impracticably thick, vs. a standardized production run of quality batteries, that (so far, knock on wood,) seem to last a while. I could see going “off the deep end” and to prove a point, making an 18650 chassis version of the chassis if I do end up doing it. But…. realistically, it’d be for pride to say I did it, not because it’s worth doing. If someone wants to? I’m not gonna stop people, but it opens up a lot of complications including BMS selection and cell sourcing quality problems. I’m…. not gonna keep discussing that for now, but if you want to sub-thread, happy to discuss if you’d like to engage.

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The Framework Laptops uses BQ40Z50R3 BMS for their batteries, the EC reads the information from the BMS to supply the correct voltage and current for charging. It’s possible to use a slightly different battery chemistry as long as the voltage falls within 12.0V to 17.8V. For a thicker laptop you can use 4S2P INR18650-35E (10.6V to 16.8V), you’ll need to program the BMS chip for different voltage and current rating (16800mV, 3400mA/0.5C), reduce the capacity slightly (12.0V to 10.6V is unusable range) and especially the discharge curve(for accurate charge percentage reading). You can also use 5S LFP battery (12.5V to 17.5V*)

*LFP battery usually charges at 3.6V, however when the charger is disconnected, the voltage will quickly drop to below 3.4V. Keeping the battery at 3.6V may wear it down faster because of this and charging to 3.4V~3.8V has very low impact on capacity and charging time.

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I wasn’t saying I want an 18650 system for the FW laptops. I was saying what I would like to see from other devices that should (also) be made thicker, in an attempt to agree with your point about manufacturers and designers ignoring the desires of the community.

What I would like from an aftermarket chassis is the ability to run two hot-swappable batteries at a lower individual capacity. You could use the same chemistry FW already uses, but add a small board to handle the swap and communicate with an internal controller on each battery. Add in a built-in PD charger on each unit, and you don’t have to have any model-specific equipment.

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fair enough; there’s a couple ways that could be handled, I definitly see ways that could happen. Sorry if I misinterpreted.

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It’s a bit strange to act so antagonistic towards Framework just because you have a niche desire for a laptop. Wouldn’t it be better to design and manufacture your own chassis that will take Framework parts, therefore complementing their existing line instead of competing against them?

I personally love the 16 and am very happy at how thin it is considering the power. If I wanted a 2” thick laptop with clicky keys, I would pull out the old pentium3 police laptop I have in my closet :stuck_out_tongue:

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I would love a “thicker” laptop that takes mechanical key switches and have friends in the software dev space that HATE laptop keyboards and often pack a mechanical keyboard with them when they travel

as an aside I work in construction my self and we have a HUGE NEED for a competitor to the “famous” Panasonic tufbooks / T series - a toughened chassis that can take a life in mud covered pickups or maintenance garages where being used in “not clean” environments with DUST and incidental splash of water / carried in the rain

framework ethos is exactly what we need as we accept we WILL BREAK it and want to be able to get it back up and running cheaply and quickly

as lots of our software packages are licence paired to the machine and moving the licence to a fresh machine is a costly / time consuming process

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My new FW16 hasn’t even arrived yet, but if they would offer a “toughbook” style chassis tomorrow….I would buy it on the spot. There is a true market out there. Just think about the massive development possibilities…..The possible customer base is also huge. IT/Comms Techs (like myself)/Mechanics/Police/Military/Researchers……

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I’ll rev up my 3d printer. I might buy a few mystery boxes and see if I get lucky with a Gen1 motherboard. I don’t have the budget to buy a fresh one after getting my Gen2 FW16.

If you want it to work in extremely harsh environments, some changes should be made to the cooling system, and a different display mount would be smart.

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I would like a chonky version of FW16 case, dust-, spill-, and impact resistant, especially combined with a ThinkPad-style keyboard with TrackPoint. If FW16 could survive a hinge-first unprotected drop onto concrete from shoulder height like my TP W520 did with only minor plastic cracks, and keep working, it would immediately replace 100% of all my laptops that I use for travel and work on-the-go instead of being just a dedicated gaming/desktop replacement machine.

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Not relevant to larger batteries or ruggedization, just to keyboards:

I was wondering if a lazier approach might be to increase the thickness of the lid, instead of the chassis, and recess the display within the lid, so a thicker keyboard/TrackPoint could rise above the top of the chassis, but still not touch the screen.

(This may be a stupid idea - just throwing it out there.)

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I collect vintage computers and have multiple laptops from early 90s, that was an extremely common approach back then. Heck, ThinkPads kept recessed screens almost into mid-2000s! And even W530’s bezel in 2012 had a bit of an overhang on top that would “hug” the rounded edge of wrist rest in closed position. That rounded wrist rest edge was much more comfortable than a rather sharp edge in MacBooks and their copycats (special side glare for Razer Blade - god awful machines, hugely regret allowing my wife convince me that’s what she wants, both of us were very glad to replace it with FW13).

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The build of a rugged case could start from there:

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You know what? you’re right, and thank you for pointing out a negative direction I took this; I’ve honestly been going through some personal stuff recently, and probably made this far more confrontational than I should have. I do love everything about what Framework stands for. I… I’ll re-evaluate and see what I can do to be both motivated, and more cooperative on this idea.

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I’ve been using my FW16 without its keyboard for months now. I refuse to buy a replacement keyboard until they do some material design changes or whatever it needs to resolve the keys breaking issue. I’m still hoping someone in the community figures something out to make a repair.

For the time being I have a “Perixx PERIBOARD-332 Wired Backlit USB Keyboard“ which is the best membrane keyboard I have ever used sitting in place of the FW16 keyboard. Kinda want a way to be able to shoehorn it into the FW16 keyboard socket so I don’t need dangling USB cables.

If you have a 3D printer, you can print the single plate touchpad panel. It is actually way better than the metal ones FW manufactures. It is surprisingly sturdier/less flexible even though its just PLA. My 3D printer was too small so I had it printed in 2 pieces and hotglued together in the middle. It has so much less flex and fixed an issue with the touchpad where if you leaned on the panel it’d click the button. Theres less flex so the issue is gone. + the textured print plate makes it feel so much nicer than a smooth surface.

I really do wish FW wasn’t chasing an impossibly thin laptop for there “gaming“ line. I really do think they could have made a better product if they allowed themselves a bit more breathing room. The thing has so much flex in it that they plastic keys of there keyboard scratched permanent marks into the screen. I can see the outlines of the keys on the screen when it is turned off.

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Honestly I think maybe I get the point of the design, or at least a goal that may have contributed; shooting for the thinnest build possible probably establishes a benchmark to iterate from if nothing else. At some point (hopefully soon) I’ll look at getting my 3D printer running again, finish the upgrades, and start playing with replacement models for the various parts of the FW 16. Probably need to buy a spare mainboard and other internals at some point so I can start playing around with printed cases.

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I’ve been wanting a more ruggedized version of the Framework (either version) for years but I don’t have the time or skills to design and build something like that.

I recently had to buy a Dell Pro Rugged 14 for work (marine survey). I’ll still use my Framework 16 (2024 w/ GPU), just not in the field any more. If Framework came out with a semi-rugged chaise/ shell for the FW13 or FW16, I’d be Batch 1 for sure. And I know a few other people who would eagerly upgrade as well.

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