Same here. At 25% constant base speed (~720RPM) the PSU still kicks in, but less often.
Does adding the 80mm fan at the top of the case make any difference?
Batch 12, 128GB, running in EU from wall 220V. I do get the minor noise in intervals same as others have already mentioned. I would not say the sound it makes is by any means loud, I only notice it in a silent room when it stops, since it does not ramp and creates a sudden silence.
Not going to create an issue since I do believe this is as intended. Not ideal, but perhaps there was a reason FW chose this solution. It does make me curious why there is no fan ramp up/down and why the fan does not spin up to a slower speed for longer, to avoid 100% fan speed in intervals.
The fan noise might be intended. The root cause isn’t.
The FSP PSU behaves like a tiny, very inefficient room heater.
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Don’t have a 80mm fan currently. The CPU fan always on at 25% setting in the bios helps that the PSU fan does not engage as often. But still not ideal.
Hope they can figure out:
- why the system draws so much power during idle (as measured and reported by others)
- why the PSU seemingly gets hot enough for the PSU fan to kick in even under very light loads
- why the PSU fan does not ramp-up, even though it was intended to do so, given their marketing material
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The noise problem seems to be the fan controller; either the temperature probe or the circuitry (assuming it follows the schematic @sun found). So, if there’s going to be a fix it will be a hardware one.
I wonder how many untis have shipped already and, again, why the issue wasn’t picked up earlier. All rather odd
Has anyone who raised support tickets about these issues got any updates back?
Given the results from the poll here, the fan not gradually ramping up issue seems to be a “common/standard” behavior instead of from individual faulty units. It should be relatively easy to replicate/investigate by Framework/FSP because there is no need to wait for the faulty units to be returned.
I’m in the process of getting a cooler and PSU replacement shipped to me. In addition to the PSU my cooler had dents like someone else posted either in the forum or on Reddit (don’t remember where I saw it).
@Eagle from the Framework team says they are tracking the PSU issue, but support seems to be sending out replacements - acknowledging there is a problem but no information whatsover concerning their current state of investigation.
Not sure if my replacement PSU will perform better (will definitely post here with the results), but there is hope, seeing that around a quarter of those participating in the poll don’t seem to have problems.
I do think it could be a widespread problem. Maybe many people just don’t care as it’s still more silent than a regular desktop. Personally don’t like the higher pitched fan noise compared to the lower fan noise of a traditional desktop. We also should not extrapolate from the poll as there is no way of us knowing if it’s just more likely affected users participating, etc. So without any info from Framework themselves no way to tell where we’re at.
As with other problems (personally was burned by the FW13 11th gen Intel cmos battery issue, currently have a standing support ticket for a cracked FW12 chassis) I really wish Framework was not forced to play their communication hyper safe and extra vague (just my assumption… that this is caused by them trying to be safe legally). With the FW12 chassis they at least gave some insights after some time. Hope they do the same with the PSU soon.
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To Framework Rep/Support/Exec/Eng/et al: That is TOTALLY unacceptable to me! I have a 3U server case with 16 IronWolf drives and 6 SATA SSDs and 10 [TEN!] Noctua fans, literally 2.5 to 4 feet from my right ear, with the system’s PSU fan exposed and always on due to the idle current load pointing straight up at my right ear exactly 32 inches away, and the whole system is normally near silent unless I spin-up LM Studio and use it and even then it’s just the Noctua fan’s soft blowing sound … certainly, always quieter and a more pleasant audio spectrum than that!
[snip] So many more…
To Framework Engineers. PLEASE FIX THIS! Please test your PSUs before shipping, perhaps?
To Framework Support / Execs / Rep et al: PLEASE provide feedback to the community about this issue and how you are pivoting to address this.
In the last several days I just went from super excited and impatient to be receiving my really slick unusual compact full Desktop system – having my desired front ports, and spending quite a bit of time using the slick Desktop Tile Layout Designer provided by wolfgang [ https://fw.wolfgang.lol/ ] which should be stickied to the top of the forum btw, and I even bought a Noctua NF-A12x25 G2 PWM to decrease the noise floor of my Desktop at idle! – to just now making an order for the mainboard alone, unfortunately in batch 15 where my Desktop order is batch 14.
If there isn’t an official comment from Framework about this that will assure I’ll have a near silent system at idle or during load without an objectionable audio spectrum , I’ll be canceling by Batch 14 Desktop order, keep the mainboard order, and do my own build in an “ordinary” case with a standard but otherwise silent PSU like the Corsair I’m using now.
You’re still getting my money, just less of it. But also with less enthusiasm for Framework. Which I’m really disappointed about. Some seriousness and public comment about this situation is warranted at this point.
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Yes I have heard back. They asked me to send a video showcasing the issue. I complied. They then noted the following.
After a thorough review of this issue and of the submitted photos/ videos, we’ve concluded that there is a need to replace the PSU.
Awaiting confirmation that a replacement was shipped.
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I understand your frustration. This issue is unacceptable to all of us. That’s why we’re here discussing the issue so we all can get the assistance we need.
Framework has already replied earlier asking those with an affected unit to submit a support request. No one at Framework is obligated to reply outside their official support channels, as frustrating as that might be. It’s for the best though as an official support ticket ensures they can match up a person with an order, track proper metrics of who’s affected, and keep the community discussion about the community.
I reached out to support and they replied within a day and already confirmed they will be replacing my PSU. Others chimed in and said their replacements are on the way. We’re not sure whether those replacements are a new model, contain some updated hardware fix, or something else. I’m sure we will report back as we receive them and test them.
Regardless, the Framework Desktop is still a beast of a machine for me and remains my daily driver for work. Sure the sound is annoying me but I’ll just push on Framework support and this thread until it’s completely resolved for me and I suggest others do the same.
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I don’t think there is any unaffected unit. Please show me a single good one because i’ve lost hope…
There were a number of people taking the no noise in idle option in the survey. It would be interesting to hear from one of those the details. Do they simply not mind the fan or is there, indeed, even if you listen no fan spin up in idle operation.
I am pretty sure the high idle consumption is a PSU feature and won’t change unless an entirely different one is used. My impression is, that they tried a lower power, not quite as loud Noctua fan but that was not powerful enough for the task. Their ventilation pipe is a very constrained design and probably adds to static pressure requirements on top of the cramped Flex ATX design, so maybe it needs to spin up like crazy to really move enough air.
I guess in this formfactor a fully custom PSU would have been necessary with better aearation concept than the Flex ATX format but that would have been a considerably bigger effort. Some competitors are doing that with the Strix Halo though. I would love to know how the PSU fan situation is with the HP Strix Halo workstation for example.
I agree with you. It’s expected for the PSU to be less efficient under light load. I think the PSU is FSP400-50FVB, and if you take the numbers from the specs here, 10W at idle feels about right (~7W package power at 75% efficiency).
Also, it’s physics that 40mm fans at high speed will make unpleasant noise.
What I’m curious is how the fan curve works. Would someone with the PSU be able to do a fan speed test using a tachometer like this below?
- What speed the fan is spinning at idle
- What’s the percentage to the max speed (based on the Delta fan’s specs)
- Is the fan running in constant speed or will spin faster under high load/temp
A possibility is that the fan is already running at a relatively low speed and there is not much we can do about the noise at that speed.
Yes. And i’m pretty sure they would’ve noticed if they had left the system running long enough before.
With that amount of entropy there is no way of the fan not kicking in unless the case is opened and/or well ventilated.
This whole discussion about the noisy PSU fan doesn’t make any sense to me.
I produce music on the PC, thus I am always keen on getting the computer as silent as possible, while still aiming for enough horse power to run DAW software and demanding plugins.
What I really don’t understand is the following:
Does anyone here know of a customized SFF computer/Laptop that has really high specs and is not noisy?
As for the Framework Desktop:
How on earth could a 40mm fan put enough cooling power in a small form factor, but still powerfull PSU, without being noisy, due to high speed in order to get the same cooling power like, e.g. a relatively slow running 120mm fan?
Small fans always need to compensate with higher RPM compared to a bigger fan.
So here is my suggestion for folks that prioritize a silent computer:
Just order the Mainboard only, not the full Framework Desktop, buy a bigger case for bigger fans and better cooling and maybe even a passively cooled ATX-PSU.
If the most important thing about your next high performance computer is small size, then you HAVE to deal with at least some noise, since the volume of the case isn’t ideal for cooling and big fans.
This really is not rocket science and all of you could have anticipated, that small fans in high specs machines never are near silent.
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It’s possible that all units are affected. We’ll see if these replacements truly solve the problem.
I can’t speak for others but I didn’t notice for almost a month. I only use the machine during the day for work when there’s other competing noise like my dogs or headphones. Now that I experienced the noise it’s easy to hear it again and again when it occurs.
We’re not complaining that there is noise, but rather that the noise itself is of a certain resonance to be irritating. Especially after Framework marketed near silence for the product. When my CPU fan spins up during compiling that noise is perfectly fine.
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I think there is some misunderstanding. As @Matthew_Sanabria mentioned, people are not demanding a fully silent system under load. What’s being discussed here is the fan behavior and noise at idle.
Let’s say at idle the package consumes 7W and total power draw is 10W. This means the CPU heatsink and motherboard are dissipating 7W (without the CPU fan running btw).
This leaves 3W which is what the PSU has to dissipate. 3W is not much. I would expect this easily handled by a slow fan with minimum noise (or fully passively if well designed).
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Do you consider less than 300W peak load to be “high spec”? There certainly are power supplies that provide more power and are not only absolutely silent, but also more efficient.
And this really is no 1200W SFF PSU in a 1U rack 
40 mm fans can be silent btw. I installed one on my Voron0 3D-printer. Noctua fan running on low speed, barely audible. The thing is that this won’t cut it for that PSU, given the constrained and long flow path.
The red flag for me was the information that the Noctua fan was too weak for the job. That’s where it became clear that it can’t be silent. Nonetheless I think a slower but constant speed would do the job just as well and be less harsh on the ear.
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