Random hard freezes fw13 amd7840u win11

Unfortunately I’ve already done this and still face BSODs on both battery and plugged in.

Also yeah, not really feeling how people will jump to the defense of the company and say stuff like “well my computer doesn’t have this problem, you are a rare case and therefore it’s not a real problem” because okay, I don’t understand what that accomplishes other than minimizing this very real issue? It’s awesome if you don’t have this problem, amazing, good for you! Stay out of this thread then, it quite frankly was not meant for you.

Say what you will but in my history of laptops, including a bunch of Windows laptops and a MacBook, none of those computers have crashed as often as this Framework did. I had a shitty Razer Blade Stealth that literally cooked the internal SSD due to poor heat management and somehow, that computer STILL crashed less in the 3 years I used it than this computer has in one month. To think that if I was still in college, that poorly built laptop would still be the more reliable choice for coursework and online tests/practicums than the Framework is rn is extremely laughable.

The only reason I put up with these crashes is because I no longer use my personal computers for anything important. If I was still in college, I would have already returned this computer a long time back and looked elsewhere.

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Same lol, I didn’t have any BSODs for a minute (aka long while, week or more at least) after fresh installing Windows until literally just 5 minutes ago, plugged in no less. Was using the touchpad so there’s that.

Just adding my similar experiences here for additional visibility and scale of this topic.

  • hard freezes have happened many times, usually once or twice during a multi-hour session
  • happens mostly when using the touchpad, usually while browsing the web in firefox
  • has happened both when the laptop was plugged in and on battery, but more often on battery

build details

  • Batch 6
  • 7840u
  • g.skill cl40 5600mhz, 32x2
  • samsung 990 pro
  • bios 3.03
  • AMD Adrenalin 24.2.1

Thanks to everyone documenting/sharing their experiences and ofc to those working to fix this.

Cheers,

I do not understand why the volks here want more status updates.
We got updates when framework made major steps foreword. I think that is enough. I don’t need framework to post every 3 days the same thing like a bot. And having a lot of repetitive updates won’t make the people feel less left alone than having only a few updates.

As soon as I read, that framework will include the fix in the new bios, but the current version is totally unreliable, I understood that the next update from framework will properly be the release of the beta version. So this is the next thing I’m waiting for.

I understand, that they want to include the fix in the version of an bios they are already working on.
I understand, that the bios version of the FW16 was in a way more advanced state so the fix could be released sooner.
I understand, that they definitely don’t want you to wait X days for the bios just to notice, that in your case it actually was incompatible RAM and now you are out of your return window.

If there was something I would criticize about their communication, it would be that the updates usually came after someone complained like a 3 year old

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My frustration in this entire process is that I have no confidence that Framework knows what the root cause of this issue is. In my direct communication with the support channels I haven’t seen anything that indicates a clear aha, or a clear statement like, “the next BIOS/this driver pack/this hardware replace, will fix the issue”. Both myself and support have been grasping at straws. The only reassuring thing, but I have to take Framework’s word here, is that they claim this is not a wide spread problem. Their are numerous people demonstrating a pretty common set of symptoms which indicates that what ever is going on here is systemic. Not just a bad chip/one off qc issue.

I don’t need an update every three days, what I need is confidence that a fix has been found or that I need to return this product because it has a fundamental flaw.

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To characterize anyone who has brought up this issue, whether it’s in regards to the BSOD itself or to Framework’s communication, as “complaining like 3 year olds,” really only proves my point with how people seem to want to jump at the defense of Framework unprompted.

Also, plenty of people have tested different RAM kits and still face the same issue, so it is clear that in some cases (I’d argue most), this is not a RAM issue. Ironically though, I do agree with you that people should not wait until their return period is over for a fix to be found; rather they should just return the computer and come back later when the platform is more stable (or perhaps not at all, instead opting for a computer without such instability issues in the first place) :+1:.

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I’ve posted earlier in this thread that my BSOD’s were better, but they still happen. After doing a safe mode uninstall of all AMD drivers, then loading the Framework package, then loading the latest AMD drivers, my stability was much better. Then I re-pasted my heatsink with Honeywell PTM which dropped my CPU and GPU temps over 10C under full load which seemed to help with BSOD’s too. But they still happen every week or two.

I’ve owned a lot of computers and laptops over the last 30 years or so, like a lot. I’ve had plenty of blue screens too, but one trend that I’ve noticed is that AMD based systems seem more likely to BSOD. I swore off AMD many years ago because of stability problems. I stuck with Intel and didn’t have a blue screen for YEARS… even when running junky Chinese macbook clones.

I read all about how much better the AMD performance is now days decided to give AMD another try. I thought that surely AMD would be better after all these years and I like the idea of Framework. I don’t blame Framework. They use the hardware, drivers, and firmware provided by AMD and just tweak them. AMD won’t likely fix this because the failure rate is very low and the problem is very hard to reproduce. I really doubt Framework has the resources to get to the bottom of the problem either. Even a large company like Dell or HP would likely not invest the time and effort to figure this problem out.

I still believe in Framework, but I’m done with AMD. When the next generation Intel board comes out, I’ll sell this AMD board and finally have a stable system.

Good luck and save often!

I appreciate your point here, AMD have their fair share of criticism in the past and that’s justified, but being someone who has now owned or been provided by work, 4 AMD powdered laptops, this experience is not aligned with my own experiences of the past. That’s not withstanding (yet again, my own experience, and I reiterate, this is purely my own experience) desktop PCs with 2, 3 and 5 series Ryzen chips with no issues.

There’s a long thread of people with the same issues here, a quick Google for me anyway for “AMD Laptop BSOD”, redirects to framework in some capacity. There’s a pattern. If you’re one of the lucky people who seemingly have no issues with yours, I’m pleased. However, I see more people raising issues with their AMD laptops from Framework than praise them.

Just out of interest, what is your AMD configuration on yours? It might help the rest of us try and narrow down the issue, because we’re getting little back from Framework

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If you read through this thread, you can see a pattern.
It’s that framework usually answered after the whiniest comments of people not giving a single thought about why things are the way they are, but making up tons of accuses instead.
I get it, people are frustrated, but what I don’t get is why framework only seemed to consider giving an update after someone writing such a comment. Why does it take a “person complaining like a 3 year old”?
Thats my criticism.
I don’t see how that proves your point on “how people seem to want to jump at the defense of Framework unprompted”

People just want clarity regarding the issue at hand, which is really not that hard to understand when they’ve spent $1000+ dollars on a machine which crashes on a whim and is proving to be unreliable for any serious workload at the moment. It also does not help that Framework did not provide said clarity till multiple people complained about the lack of a response.

Speaking of, the fact that it took a “person complaining like a 3 year old,” as you put it, for Framework to even clarify why it is that the update is taking so long after however many months this issue has been a thing and however many responses to this thread is exactly the issue at hand. Nobody should have had to even do that in the first place. They could have literally told us of their own volition that the BIOS update was delayed due to a regression and that testing has been slow due to the Lunar Year Holiday and everyone would have accepted that response, but instead it had to be forced out of them by people on this thread. This is the lack of transparency that people keep bringing up in this thread.

I myself have been pretty quiet on any communication issues after they mentioned that they were actively working on the BIOS update and ran into regressions in their second update, since now I am convinced that they are actually working on a fix, but keep in mind that prior to said statement, nobody knew what the Framework team was even doing to provide a potential fix other than a response from Nirav nearly a month ago which vaguely mentioned the touchpad issue from the FW16. Given that vagueness, it’s not that hard to come to the conclusion that people started complaining because everything was up in the air and the only other thing we were told regarding the issue was “yeah your RAM is busted sucks to suck replace it,” which for many people in this thread was a dead end response and did nothing to stop the BSODs.

Pretending that there is absolutely no valid reason that people are frustrated and that somehow we gaslit Framework into providing a response is asinine at best and could be construed as “jumping at the defense of Framework unprompted”.

EDIT: Just for anyone else reading this, it may sound like I’m throwing a lot of shade at Framework; I just want to clarify that I am not stating that Framework needs to be giving us daily (or even weekly) updates or anything like that, just that they need to share prudent information that they do find sooner rather than later. For example, up until Framework actually clarified the reason behind the delays in the BIOS update, many of us were speculating that they had simply just prioritized the FW16 over the FW13, when it is now clear by their update that this was not the case at all, and that they were actually actively working on a fix, just had valid reasons for why it wasn’t released yet. However, because of how late this information was actually shared, a lot of us got frustrated with the perceived lack of care from Framework, even if this may not have actually been the case.

More transparent and detailed updates here and there would avoid such backlash in the future, as well as set realistic expectations as to when to expect a fix, which I think would be good for Framework because at the end of the day, I don’t want to see them fail, but I think there are things they could do better in the future.

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Stop defending them this should be fixed before they released the laptop not after

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Again after I wanted to install a new windows update on the laptop and it got stuck in restarting I did wait 10 minutes and nothing, so I had to force turn it off again even with the new motherboard. Am I the only one with this issue my previous motherboard became really unstable after I had to force turn it off it multiple times. The bsods and freezes started happening and after 1 week the bios died. I hoped that the new provided motherboard would fix this but no the same behavior as before.

Stop asking for the impossible

I hate to be the one saying this, especially since this answer has been memed to high hell and back, but at this rate I would actually check if your RAM or SSD is corrupt/broken. I have been dealing with a lot of DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION BSODs, but I haven’t run into any of the major issues you’ve been mentioning. No issues with Windows Updates, not getting stuck at boot or restarting, definitely did not run into issues with the BIOS dying since I’m still on my OG mainboard and its been two months now, etc. As bad as this BSOD issue is, the fact that you’ve had two mainboards die now (unless I am misunderstanding) tells me something more severe is happening in your case.

Bad RAM could be causing the issues with booting that you are bringing up (I myself have not run into any issues with booting up the computer even once, for example) and I’m suggesting the SSD because the symptoms that you mention regarding the instability with the operating system and Windows Update seems eerily similar to how my Razer Blade Stealth was performing before the SSD completely failed and I had to replace it.

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So. This issue (seemingly) does not affect all AMD owners. If we are to take the word of Framework (and all of the people who jump to their rescue), this is a minority of laptops that have this issue. OS reinstalls have happened, to no avail. Mainboard swaps have happened, to no avail. RAM/SSD swaps have happened, to no avail.

This issue has seemingly been mostly narrowed down to be touchpad related. Has anybody tried a trackpad swap? Is it possible that (in addition to a BIOS that does not properly handle errors) this could be a bad batch of touchpads? Just throwing that idea out there.

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Honestly, no, it never even occurred to me to swap the touchpad out, I had just assumed everyone’s touchpad is based on the same hardware and firmware, but if perhaps that actually isn’t the case, it would explain why some users are facing this crash and other users aren’t. (Now that I think about it, since we are pretty convinced it’s touchpad related at this point, it could indeed be a faulty touchpad or touchpad cable causing the crashes).

I was already thinking of getting the clear keys input cover, which I think comes with its own touchpad, I’ll let you know if I move forward with buying it and see if the touchpad on that input cover fixes the issue. For anyone under warranty, see if you can convince Framework support to send over a replacement touchpad, I cannot because while my main board is new, the actual laptop is from 2021 so I’m out of warranty on everything but the main board.

If it is a faulty touchpad, then I would’ve thought some QA testing on Framework may have caught that out? Unless they just thought “Eh it works ship it”

I can see why it would’ve been missed, never had trackpads, or mice or keyboards cause bluescreens before. But if it is indeed a hardware issue with the trackpad, that should be covered by warranty (or at least a replacement sent out by Framework as a courtesy). I’d like to see them check to make sure the others are done. Idk. I’ve still remained perplexed at this issue, or why it occurs so randomly. But then I’m not an electrical engineer.

The issue for us checking the RAM at fault, most of us don’t have replacement kits lying around or are willing to just spend money to get one to test with. Usually our tools to test RAM is not faulty are memtest tools, and unless that picks up errors anyway, we’re going to have a hard time proving it is faulty to get it returned at this point.

If it is a trackpad issue, then it kinda vindicates the idea of modularity that it can just be replaced without having to RMA the entire laptop. But that is the only theory we have to go on.

To be fair, it would be hard to QC the trackpad specifically for this issue because of the nature of these BSODs, the most frustrating thing about them is how random and sporadic they are, some weeks I can go the whole week without a crash, and other weeks I’m crashing everyday at least twice a day. Almost like the laptop has a mind of its own.

Also you are right on the money regarding checking the RAM at fault, it’s a lot easier said than done, because if you don’t have spare RAM laying around (and honestly, who does?), then your options are as follows:

  1. RMA the existing RAM, which means your laptop will be a paperweight while you wait for Crucial/Kingston/Framework/etc. to ship out the new RAM, not great for people who only have the one laptop to begin with.
  2. Buy a new set of RAM and try that out, but I see no reason I should go out of my way to spend $150+ dollars on new RAM just to test if my crashes are due to RAM or not, not to mention once again not everyone can just afford to drop that kind of cash.

I too am just going based off of memtest86 results for now and I still have yet to run into any indication in those tests that my RAM is broken or buggy in anyway, hence I’m convinced it is not a RAM issue. Also, due to the fact that memtest86 isn’t reporting any errors even after so many passes, it is unlikely Crucial would be sympathetic and even RMA my RAM to begin with.

Jumping back here after some time to say I’ve had two different Input Keyboards (for a different reason), DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION BSODs with both of them. So, yeah, even a trackpad swap seems to be of no help. I’ve also had an SSD swap, same thing.

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Ok, thank you for your input. Just to clarify, it was the entire input cover kit that you replaced? (keyboard, trackpad, fingerprint sensor, metal plate)