@Usernames maybe not in your case but with 12th gen boards I have to disagree i.e. the post I was responding to from @Stephen_Panicho . I regularly experienced the same behavior until I switched to a stronger charger. Also I definitely recommend being on the latest UEFI/BIOS it clears up a lot of thunderbolt/usb-c issues and these may include power negotiation. I have not experienced this behavior since performing the actiions I recommended.
@nadb I donāt think thatās the issue. Itās on a dock capable of 90W and the laptop is certainly not exceeding that while it sits idle.
If never reaching the fully-charged state happens for everyone, then itās a deficiency in the EC programming. Iām trying to verify that before calling it bad hardware.
As far as Iām aware, there is no other BIOS release for 12th Gen aside from a beta. Iāll check that out and report back.
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The 3.06 beta is the one I am on. It is where I would start since you already have a charger that should satisfyā¦however I did test a number of docks claiming to deliver in the 85w range and were in fact topping out at 62-65w so if the update does not fix the issue, I would at least verify. I also noticed that in some situations prior to finding a charger that actually delivered and updating the UEFI stress testing would cause a state where the battery would not charge at all until discharged, or disconnected in the UEFI and reconnected, after which it would charge again.
Regardless buggy UEFI or EC is likely the root cause.
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That beta bios thread looks mighty concerning. Seems like it introduces more issues than it fixes! On second thought, Iāll wait for an official release.
@nadb Yes, I am also referring to the same post you are. My previous reply is another issue so I can see your reason for confusion.
I am disagreeing with your reasoning, as the post you are replying to indicated this occurs all the time not under heavy load just like rest of the thread describes.
All the best
Once this goes into third party territory, we cannot accurately duplicate. If possible, please duplicate this issue using our charger - if it happens there as well, itās worth opening a ticket indicating hardware/charging concerns/questions.
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My problem with battery flipping was fixed by switch off battery in the BIOS. Itās not draining the battery anymore even on 80% load of CPU. But it looks like a workaround.
I also curious why there is no option to set minimum discharge for battery before to start charging in the BIOS?
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I suspect this is related to the custom charging logic there, which is supposed to implement the charge limit in the BIOS:
It sets the charging mode to IDLE. Note that this happens even if charging_maximum_level == 100.
I would like to add that Iām seeing this very often on my brand-new i7-1360P framework. During regular use I see notifications from poweralertd every few minutes, and when compiling (100% usage across 14 threads), it happens every 15-30 seconds. Itās pretty obnoxious so Iām disabling the notifications for now.
The battery gets noticeably warm after hard usage, but Iām not sure if thatās the battery itself or the CPU heat conducting across the input cover. The good news is, if my battery gets ruined before this is fixed, I can just get a replacement! What a concept.
Welcome to the forums, is this with a Framework provided charger or third party charger?
This is with the framework-provided charger. I noticed that the max turbo power draw of the 1360P is 64W, and the charger is only 60W, so it could be going beyond the capabilities of the included charger.
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Think this may be worth a ticket to gather more details on what is taking place. Framework Knowledge Base
The 64W number you refer to is TDP. TDP is Thermal Design Point - the max heat generated by the CPU. Further, these CPUās operate at 1.2V-1.5V nominal. The 60W charger FW provides is a 20V - 3A charger. On the motherboard thereās regulators, step down circuits and for the CPU a multi phase switching power supply to provide the appropriate voltage to the respective components. In other words, the 60W charger has little relationship to the 64W TDP figure.
Hopefully new BIOSes fix this issue
This may be the case however I have measured up to 74w of power draw on multiple inline usbc power meters, clearly not with the Framework 60w Charger on a 1260P.
Iām curious, 74W at what voltage? Youāre using this inline power meter on the 60W charger USB C cable? I wonder if this inline device is affecting the USB C PD handshake from allowing the charger to tell the laptop that it has 60W max. And assuming this meter is accurate, maybe FW should be changing the charger to 80W or so. Itās easy enough to test with a USB C PD 80W or higher charger and see the result.
I specifically stated I am not using the Framework 60w Charger. I am using an Anker 737 120w max with 100w on the laptop charge point ( Anker 737 Charger (GaNPrime 120W) - Anker US! ). These are inline so plugged into the laptop with the charging cable coming from the charger or plugged into the wall with the charger plugged in it (I used a pluggable brand power meter and a Kill-A-Watt brand meter, same results. If I remember correctly it was around 20v.
I donāt even own the Framework Charger, I specifically avoided it because of the cable issues, and the fact that based on my research it was very likely it would be insufficient to actually allow the I7-1260P to reach its maximum potential. Also I am not a fan of the form factor.
The pluggable USB C volt and amp meter should be relatively accurate. That is assuming you have a newer model that supports PD 3.1. I assume you do. The Kill A Watt meter is on the 120VAC side of the Anker charger. Since the Anker is converting line voltage to DC, thereās inefficiency and loss in the conversion process, therefore additional current consumption at 120V is expected.
I plan to get a usb c volt/amp meter and will do my own testing and report back. Interesting results you found and I can only hope FW will comment on this matter.
You said you canāt reproduce this on any device. But do you ever see state: fully-charged in the output of this?
upower -i /org/freedesktop/UPower/devices/battery_BAT1
If yes, that will be interesting. If I understand the EC code correctly, it should be hard to see fully-charged. When youāre charging, as soon as you hit (rounded) 100%, the code sets to IDLE, which should then result in discharching.
I also see this with the official Framework charger. And I donāt think weāll need to collect lots of data. At least for those who have the issue, the answer is in the code. (Yes, if not everyone has the issue, then it will be interesting to understand why this is the case.)
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I see, apologies for the mixup then. The datasheet I was looking at just says āMaximum turbo powerā so I didnāt realize it was TDP.
Regardless, I will probably get a 120 W Anker brick and a nice braided cable so I only have to carry one charging brick when I travel. Iāll report back if the behavior is any different with that combo.