[TRACKING] Battery flipping between charging and discharging / Draws from battery even on AC

How often and to what degree does it discharge?

So I might have recently experienced this too, it was brief and caught me by surprise so I didn’t check if the charge indicator LED changed colour and the battery is always reported as charging in the UI so I didn’t think to check that. I have a 75% charge limit, 11th gen i5 3.10 BIOS.

I was watching a 1080p/60 youtube video (normally I would watch at 720p/30) when out of nowhere I started to see battery drain. I happened to be looking at battery voltage using GTKStressTesting during this time:

I then checked Gnome power statistics which normally shows “There is no data to display” when running solely of mains.

I also happened to be running s-tui during the video playback which reported 15W psys so well within the 60W available from the adapter.

I will see if I can replicate it.

I just received my Framework laptop last week and immediately noticed that the battery never gets to the fully charged state. It’s always either “charging” or “discharging”. I’m on BIOS 3.04 and running Fedora 37.

This occurs no matter what value the battery charging threshold is set to. Testing with battery threshold at 100, upower reports the following when fully-charged and plugged in:

$ upower -i /org/freedesktop/UPower/devices/battery_BAT1
  native-path:          BAT1
  vendor:               NVT
  model:                Framewo
  serial:               000F
  power supply:         yes
  updated:              Sun 19 Mar 2023 07:53:22 AM EDT (0 seconds ago)
  has history:          yes
  has statistics:       yes
  battery
    present:             yes
    rechargeable:        yes
    state:               discharging
    warning-level:       none
    energy:              54.593 Wh
    energy-empty:        0 Wh
    energy-full:         54.593 Wh
    energy-full-design:  55.0088 Wh
    energy-rate:         3.542 W
    voltage:             17.608 V
    charge-cycles:       1
    time to empty:       15.4 hours
    percentage:          100%
    capacity:            99.2441%
    technology:          lithium-ion
    icon-name:          'battery-full-symbolic'
  History (rate):
    1679226802	3.542	discharging
    1679226772	3.573	discharging
    1679226742	3.634	discharging
    1679226712	3.696	discharging

Note the state is “discharging”, when it should be “fully-charged”. In other words, from the perspective of sysfs, there is no condition in which /sys/class/power_supply/BAT1/status will report “Full”.

Is this a limitation of the embedded controller or am I dealing with a hardware issue?


Possibly-related threads:

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Personally I think the charger being used has something to do with it. Are you using the “Framework Charger”? If so I recommend getting something with a higher rated power delivery. When charging off of my Anker 737 this behavior went away, also in some situations updating to the latest UEFI helped as well. Simply the 60w charger cannot and will not provide all the needed power on a 12th gen board. I measure up to just over 74w of draw with an inline power tester, you wont get that on a 60w charger. Basically my suspicion is anytime it turboboosts for more than 5 seconds or so it switches over to battery to make up the difference.

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I do not believe this is the cause even limiting the CPU to 15W and keeping total system consumption well within the 60W output this behaviour is still occurring.

@Usernames maybe not in your case but with 12th gen boards I have to disagree i.e. the post I was responding to from @Stephen_Panicho . I regularly experienced the same behavior until I switched to a stronger charger. Also I definitely recommend being on the latest UEFI/BIOS it clears up a lot of thunderbolt/usb-c issues and these may include power negotiation. I have not experienced this behavior since performing the actiions I recommended.

@nadb I don’t think that’s the issue. It’s on a dock capable of 90W and the laptop is certainly not exceeding that while it sits idle.

If never reaching the fully-charged state happens for everyone, then it’s a deficiency in the EC programming. I’m trying to verify that before calling it bad hardware.

As far as I’m aware, there is no other BIOS release for 12th Gen aside from a beta. I’ll check that out and report back.

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The 3.06 beta is the one I am on. It is where I would start since you already have a charger that should satisfy…however I did test a number of docks claiming to deliver in the 85w range and were in fact topping out at 62-65w so if the update does not fix the issue, I would at least verify. I also noticed that in some situations prior to finding a charger that actually delivered and updating the UEFI stress testing would cause a state where the battery would not charge at all until discharged, or disconnected in the UEFI and reconnected, after which it would charge again.

Regardless buggy UEFI or EC is likely the root cause.

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That beta bios thread looks mighty concerning. Seems like it introduces more issues than it fixes! On second thought, I’ll wait for an official release.

@nadb Yes, I am also referring to the same post you are. My previous reply is another issue so I can see your reason for confusion.

I am disagreeing with your reasoning, as the post you are replying to indicated this occurs all the time not under heavy load just like rest of the thread describes.

All the best

Once this goes into third party territory, we cannot accurately duplicate. If possible, please duplicate this issue using our charger - if it happens there as well, it’s worth opening a ticket indicating hardware/charging concerns/questions.

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My problem with battery flipping was fixed by switch off battery in the BIOS. It’s not draining the battery anymore even on 80% load of CPU. But it looks like a workaround.

I also curious why there is no option to set minimum discharge for battery before to start charging in the BIOS?

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I suspect this is related to the custom charging logic there, which is supposed to implement the charge limit in the BIOS:

It sets the charging mode to IDLE. Note that this happens even if charging_maximum_level == 100.

I would like to add that I’m seeing this very often on my brand-new i7-1360P framework. During regular use I see notifications from poweralertd every few minutes, and when compiling (100% usage across 14 threads), it happens every 15-30 seconds. It’s pretty obnoxious so I’m disabling the notifications for now.

The battery gets noticeably warm after hard usage, but I’m not sure if that’s the battery itself or the CPU heat conducting across the input cover. The good news is, if my battery gets ruined before this is fixed, I can just get a replacement! What a concept.

image

Welcome to the forums, is this with a Framework provided charger or third party charger?

This is with the framework-provided charger. I noticed that the max turbo power draw of the 1360P is 64W, and the charger is only 60W, so it could be going beyond the capabilities of the included charger.

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Think this may be worth a ticket to gather more details on what is taking place. Framework Knowledge Base

The 64W number you refer to is TDP. TDP is Thermal Design Point - the max heat generated by the CPU. Further, these CPU’s operate at 1.2V-1.5V nominal. The 60W charger FW provides is a 20V - 3A charger. On the motherboard there’s regulators, step down circuits and for the CPU a multi phase switching power supply to provide the appropriate voltage to the respective components. In other words, the 60W charger has little relationship to the 64W TDP figure.

Hopefully new BIOSes fix this issue

This may be the case however I have measured up to 74w of power draw on multiple inline usbc power meters, clearly not with the Framework 60w Charger on a 1260P.