And yet, for example in germany, every fire truck is connected to the grid to keep it charged up.
I had a car battery dying in the first corona lockdown here in germany, because I didnt use it for a month. It is a thing. This doesnt excuse the issue that framework has with the battery draining rather fast, but it happens to other devices as well, just (possibly) slower
Ahhh sorry, I must have missed the message that Framework Community Support is basically a few committed and brand loyal individuals, telling other customers that have a problem, it isn’t a problem and therefore, it’s not an issue! Gotcha!
Now I know, it makes sense. All is good in the world.
Thats not what I said.
I just wanted to correct you in saying that car batteries dont lose charge when not driving.
Its truly possible, that framework has a bigger problem here, I just havent noticed it yet it, but perhaps it doesnt occur in my use case.
That’s not what I said. I said that your analogy doesn’t hold up. It is a problem for those that don’t daily drive. If the computer isn’t for you then it isn’t for you. That’s fine if that’s the case. It is a problem just not a universal problem.
I’ve been doing laptop repair for over a decade, here’s my two cents. If you’re looking for a bug-less laptop, I wish you great luck in your search, you will need it. Here’s a personal observation to save you some time - there’s no bug-less laptops, there’s only laptops with bugs that won’t affect you specifically.
Other manufacturers do way less than Framework did in this situation, and they often have worse bugs. Here, we have information on official forums and actual insights - as opposed to i.e. Apple, which censor their forums whenever one of their shitty hardware choices starts hurting them a bit too much. Plus, this bug isn’t even in FrmW’s purview, or we would’ve seen modified 11th gen boards/redesign in 12th gen at some point; Intel just, fucks things up every now and then. If this bug would affect you, I recommend you wait for an upgraded board whenever Intel gets their shit together. It doesn’t affect me, I’m quite fucking happy daily driving mine.
Also, yes, car batteries do absolutely lose charge when you don’t drive for a while, I found out the hard way.
It is and it isn’t. The initial issue is Intel’s fault although since it is a silicon-level bug. FW did implement a hardware fix to allow the RTC battery to charge off of the main battery as well as mains power. 11th gen RTC battery can only charge off of mains power. See here.
However, with 11th Gen Intel Core processors, Intel shared that there is a silicon bug where low voltage on the subsystem that the RTC battery powers can put the processor into a stuck state that needs to be manually reset
I think you are mistaken and the initial issue is the RTC voltage which is independent of the bug but is triggering it.
If it were universal to Intel 11th gen we would hear news of other manufactures with the issue/it would be news.
An RTC battery normally last 5-10 years (and more) not 2-4 weeks this is a massive downgrade and a huge shift in expectation.
The rechargeable RTC batterie has a finite number of cycles (with reduced capacity along the way) it will only get worse.
I have seen threads where the user had to replace the RTC as it was dead after a year of use.
Does the 12 gen have the same battery and thereby subject to the same problem?
Yes…eventually. With 12th gen, FW connected the RTC battery to the main battery. So long as the main battery has charge, the RTC battery will not run down and will not prompt this issue. If both batteries die then yes, you will run into the same problem.
Adding to the above - if my memory is correct, the 12th gen reset procedure does not require removal of the RTC battery, either.
Much thanks for the confirmation of what exactly is going on here with Framework’s design flaws.
Ideally I would go for the motherboard replacement of my 11th gen and go for the 12gen, but can’t justify the added expense.
I would also highly recommend against buying the 11th Gen Framework. I’ve had a similar experience to others with the mainboard RTC battery issue. Thirteen months after receiving the laptop (just outside of warranty, of course), it suddenly wouldn’t start without a charger regardless of battery level. A couple weeks later, I sat down at night class, pulled out my laptop, and discovered it was completely bricked, charger or not. It’s a worst case scenario, total bummer.
It took me a little bit to find out this is a known, recurring issue. I was able to get my laptop running again after resetting the mainboard, but a few days later I already need the charger to start the laptop again. My trust in this device as a reliable main laptop has evaporated.
This is the most expensive laptop I’ve ever bought by a significant margin, and having to babysit the battery like this has really spoiled the experience. I probably wouldn’t recommend buying any Framework device at this point, but would definitely caution against buying anything with the 11th Gen mainboard.
@BraneGenius - if you’ve already gone through the steps to fully charge the RTC battery and still have issues, you may need to replace it - the RTC battery, that is.
If you haven’t sent a message to support, I would do so. Just because you are out of warranty does not mean that they will completely deny you any help, and there may be a solution they can offer such as a replacement RTC battery, or other troubleshooting solutions. They might say they can’t help you, but with this being a first gen product I have seen them make sure to take care of the customers who bought in to the 11th gen laptops.
@Azure Contacting support was actually my first instinct. Unfortunately, it was Framework support that informed me I was out of warranty:
Thanks for the update. After a review of the issue you have submitted, our system detected that your laptop is already out of the warranty period. You may purchase a mainboard through the Marketplace - https://frame.work/products/mainboard?v=FRANFG000A.You can check the link regarding our Warranty Policy. Here: Framework | Framework | Warranty.
This was after they sent me a truncated version of the mainboard resetting procedure, which as sent did not work. Frankly, my support experience was a little disappointing.
I appreciate those who took the time to complain about this problem on the forums though, without them I would not have found the support I needed.
Also, thank you @lbkNhubert for the suggestion!
@BraneGenius Not a fellow Aussie, by any chance? Maybe your jurisdiction has a “reasonable lifetime of the product” clause like our consumer law does.
@Tinkererer_Belle I’m over in the states, so the only applicable clause is likely “caveat emptor”. 
It was a long shot, that is unfortunate though. I agree that it’s disappointing that they couldn’t offer you a better solution. I wish I had the answer to your problems, but I do not. Best of luck finding a solution, or an alternative.
Finally I was out of town for a couple of weeks. Did not have the laptop with nor was it connected to a power source. Came back and it was dead. I was able to start it up by pulling it apart as told here and then it rebooted. Was afraid I had one expensive brick. The bare minimum for any laptop is that it starts up.
Is there any interest here in trying to get the 11th gen (fan) buyers together and seeing if there is strength in numbers? Just sayin’
Nick
Let me direct you to the relevant threads.
TL;DR: No, banding together will accomplish nothing. Reach out to support and see what they will do for you. If uninterested in that, a DIY solution is available but if it is goofed up, FW will not replace the board under warranty.