I’m pretty disappointed in this. I convinced my (now) wife to get one of these for her work use, which is only occasional, and I’ve had to do the reset 3 times. The procedure is a little more complicated than she’s comfortable with.
If there is no actual fix for this, I am reconsidering buying one for myself. This is really unacceptable. I know Framework is a new company, but asking that that computers be able to turn on is not really setting the bar very high.
I liked the idea of repairability, but if this can’t be repaired, where are we exactly? Will the RTC battery get worse and worse, requiring more frequent resets?
The workaround that I’ve been able to fit into my day-to-day flow is to have a habit of docking / plugging it in once a week, and have a schedule timer to turn on (and off) the USB-PD at scheduled time.
amoun:
These are not really useful suggestions. Suggesting to buy another $1700 laptop to resolve the problem is not going to happen.
And saying “If you intend to leave it for three weeks, don’t” is also not useful. Normal laptops can be left alone for a month and turned on without taking them apart. I need solutions, not obvious but not helpful suggestions.
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@murph, while you may not like them, and I am not suggesting that you need to, those are your options if the device is used infrequently. You can upgrade the main board, or plug the laptop in for a day every couple of weeks. You can set a charge limit on the battery to avoid undue wear on it by keeping it plugged in. Best of luck with things.
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I agree…and that’s what we are left with really.
I was recently told that I’ve been overly negative with my posts…so I’ll stop crapping on it further…and the laptop is what it is. We’re stuck with it.
I’m glad they now have a partnership with Google. Nothing quite like having a business partner who has higher product release standards. (I hope)
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I’m not sure that I would hold up Google as something to emulate. It took me three pixelbooks to get one that worked. It won’t boot if I leave it unused and not plugged in for more than a few weeks (sound familiar?). They haven’t met a product that they aren’t willing to abandon. The list is legion. I’m glad that Framework is working with them and hopefully they can get something out of the collaboration, but let’s not kid ourselves that Google is great shakes. I say this while posting from a Google phone. So I have and will continue to use their products where I see fit, but I know first hand that overall they operate more like an immature child than a wise adult.
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So there’s nothing to be hopeful about?
Well hopefully Framework’s engineers can learn from Google’s, and vice-versa. I would say that I hope that Framework as a company does NOT emulate Google.
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Can anyone confirm the 12 Gen upgrade kit fixes this issue 100%?
AND:
Can my existing 11 Gen mainboard function as a (always plugged-in) desktop without the RTC battery? Or does it still need the RTC battery? I’m pretty sure mine is near-dead. And are there 3rd party cases for this repurpose?
I might be able to justify sticking with Framework if the upgrade fixes my laptop booting problems and my old mainboard can be a server or desktop PC.
I wasn’t sure, since I understand the 12 gen still uses these same batteries. I know it charges differently (from the main battery) so that should help. My 11 gen issue is worse, though, since even after resetting the main to boot, and letting it charge for days, I still can’t boot from battery alone. I’ve been emailing support since September and it’s just test after test.
As for why not use the ML1220 on always plugged in—sure, but I’d like to avoid extra steps from cold boots. If it’s anything like my laptop experience now, I’ll have to physically remove the coin battery and put it back before it will power on. Maybe skipping the battery altogether will skip that dance and go straight to booting.
@suderman - have you tried getting a new RTC battery and installing it? Maybe the one that you currently have is no longer holding a charge, and that’s causing the boot issues. Good luck!
I ordered one on Amazon today (tricky to find compared to typical coin batteries), so I’ll find out next week. I was waiting for Framework Support to agree to send me a replacement, but alas, they wore me down.
Hopefully I just had bad luck with this one battery and its not the laptop itself that’s a battery-destroyer.
I used my new Framework from October 2021 through August 2022 without trouble, plugged in at my desk nearly all the time. Then because of a family situation, the laptop sat unpowered in my backpack for a month. Ever since then, it’s been a struggle. I guess having a month off killed the poor thing.
@suderman I’ve had a very similar experience to you: the 11th gen power issues, the first occurrence close to a year after purchase, the lukewarm relationship with support (they were a little frostier with me), heck I even left mine in a backpack for a month too!
I have good news. After a month and a half of pain, I finally got to replace my CMOS battery on Christmas Eve. It’s still early to call it a total victory, but based on a little stress testing (i.e. charging it up and leaving it off the cord) and regular usage it seems to have alleviated the problem for right now.
Optimistically, I expect I’ll have to replace this battery every year or so, but it’s now only a slight inconvenience to achieve regular usability again. It’s much better than buying an expensive new mainboard and just having faith it won’t also exhibit some similarly crippling issue a year down the line.
I think support should be more proactive about suggesting this solution to others experiencing this issue. It’d be cool if there were replacement ML1220 batteries in the marketplace, as well. A few small things could go a long way towards restoring good will among some ahem grumpy early adopters.
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I have a very powerful Desktop at home. Thus, the laptop gets used when couch surfing or travelling. Laptops are for portable use - but maybe that’s just me being old? 
For superb trolol, I first ran into this issue while on an international train. 
Support replaced my mainboard with a “new” one that reaches an unbootable state within a few hours in spite of several attempts at mainboard resets and the full charging proceedure. (At least it doesn’t require a mainboard reset every time, though.) At that point, it’s a desktop, not a laptop.
Now to see if I get a replacement for my replacement, or if I end up replacing the cell on my own.
You don’t expect to get a laptop that functions as a laptop when you pay 1500 britcoins for it? Being able to survive a few weeks of non-use has been a feature of every laptop I’ve used since the mid 90’s.
The fun part of that is that support told me they do not suggest replacing the cell. So apparently, for whatever reason, spares are off the table and that’s possibly also why they abstain from supplying them on the Marketplace. (Interestingly also contradicts NRP’s now somewhat old post.)
In one of my (now many) mails to them, I asked:
(And brings me back to an earlier question
I had: could this be a case of the coin cell being problematic and I should
replace it?)
Their response was:
We do not recommend replacing the RTC coin cell since we are currently using a certain type of rechargeable RTC coin cell. We recommend placing the original RTC coin cell back in and plug in the power adapter to the laptop for at least 24 hours to let the RTC coin cell recharge and see if this helps.
This was in response to me pointing out the replacement board was worse. There have been six exchanges of mails since then, each corresponding to another round of testing various methods to charge it up, getting pictures, etcetera.
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It’s not optimal.
I have sympathy for them though. I did do tech support for a bit (though second line), and it can be difficult. (And I assume Framework, like everyone else for obvious financial reasons, uses outsourcing for first-line.) Sometimes annoying, like when I had to spend a week trying to get first-line at my then ISP to understand that “packetloss is above 50% and happening at this exact router that I traced to one of your facilities” does not mean “please run this speed-test”, but if I wanted “proper” support I’d have to pay a hell of a lot more for commercial grade kit.
So I’m fine. Annoyed at having a 2 month process with support, but fine. I mostly just want to be given an “ok, try a new battery cell” without wondering if I’ll later end up with a “but you did X so warranty is void” crap. Fortunately it’s not my main machine.
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This was part of my issue. I don’t always need a laptop, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect an expensive laptop to boot up after a week or a month of non-use (that is, without having to open it and perform a power cycling ritual). This is the first and only computer with which I’ve ever experienced such a problem.
If I pulled my old Thinkpad T420 out of storage, which I haven’t used in years, there’s no doubt in my mind it’ll boot up without issue. It’s not unfair to expect the Framework to do the same after a couple weeks in a bag, imo.
These two quotes really sum up my feelings about the lack of support for this issue. I already had an expensive computer designed to stay on the cord all day, my laptop is supposed to be the portable one!
Look on the bright side, if you spend enough months dealing with support you’ll eventually find the warranty is no longer a consideration. 
Fortunately, by law, warranty counts from OPENING the warranty case. So I’m good.
And to make it better, the unit that’s worst off is the one they sent me as a replacement. At least my original unit becomes a brick after 6-7 days instead of a few hours…
But yes. A design flaw that makes a laptop a brick if it is not connected to wall power for a week or two is… catastrophic. It should be a very high priority to ensure there’s a way for us to at least do something about it without spending months wasting CS time.
See, I have no trouble with surprises. But I like my surprises in the style of “surprising”, not “meh, the laptop I bought is no longer capable of fulfilling basic laptop duties”. 
You are essentially saying a for-profit company should not be held to the standard of delivering products that are capable of doing what they said they would do.
Especially when the replacement parts are worse than the original parts that apparently required replacing - but I now have to do ANOTHER one-month dance of test-this-test-that for 24 hours each and then do it again and again…
(Further casualty is they’re now sending me a new input cover cable since I’ve had to pull at the old one so many times the finger-strip-thingie simply came off. They’re actively hurting themselves at this point. So many operations have been done a bottom cover is likely to be the next one - since one of the mainboard screw holes is losing it’s grooves after so much surgery. And, well, also nevermind that the replacement board was an obvious refurb that they didn’t even bother checking enough to ensure it had a screw for the NVME drive… Now we know why they include spares in the chassis?)
There’s a difference between not expecting too much, and being a pushover to be taken advantage of. (But don’t forget to read their proud announcements of how much they raised in Series A funding and whatnot… )
I can be generous and assume people that need to know doesn’t know, but besides tagging @nrp … ?
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