Shipping address: My Dublin address.
Billing address: My (old) Swedish address corresponding to the registration on my card. (I was able to keep it since I had previously rented an apartment from family and was able to retain postage address there.)
IP geolocation: Dublin.
Things get different if attempting to use that Swedish card, but claiming a Dublin billing address. Etc etc. I guess, at least. (And obviously, some retailers might refuse that mix of delivery/billing address, in which case I would reach out to them prior to purchase to see if there’s a way to solve this. In some cases, I just had a friend buy it for me using “gifting” functionality and then hand them cash - if it was something cheap like a game through Origin, as was one case of problems.)
So @Kamil_Hanus you ordered your Framework and freight forwarded it, it doesnt work as expected and instead of troubleshooting it yourself, you ask Framework for support (and even full replacement), which they are not even required to since you did something officially not supported by Framework, and now complain about it in the forums?
Wow, I’m speechless. You should have just bought a Mac and we all would have avoided this drama.
It is not illegal to freight-forward. But it exposes you to risks, since you’re now exporting the equipment beyond where the manufacturer can and will support it.
Think of it like this: if I buy a laptop at Mediamarkt here in the Netherlands, then move to Italy. Mediamarkt here will not support me in Italy. But me moving the equipment is not illegal.
I’ve actually read on this topic a bit and it looks like it can both be legal and illegal depending on a lot of factors. I’ve modified my previous message, thanks for the correction!
I ordered my laptop in early September when Australia was open for receiving orders. My billing and shipping address belong to my son in Australia. However I used a Visa card issued by a bank in Malaysia, and there was no problem in the transaction. The laptop was delivered to the address in Australia at end of October, and I just received the laptop in Malaysia 2 weeks ago. My son brought it along while on visit to Malaysia 2 weeks ago. Will this be considered as freight forwarding?
@Dr_Davaraj_Balasingh While you may get a response here if theTwistGibber has the time, I would recommend sending your question to support directly if you want to be sure to get an answer.
@Dr_Davaraj_Balasingh Likely yes, since Malaysia isn’t a supported country. Your son may not be a freight forwarding company but you used him like one. But yes, contacting support would be your best bet.
@Dr_Davaraj_Balasingh So long as you understand that all dealings with the company have to take place in Australia it doesn’t really matter. Once the laptop is in your possession you can take it wherever you please. As this thread has highlighted, the unreasonable expectations that Framework will support you wherever you please are incorrect. This is not Framework trying to be mean to potential customers. Rather this is Framework operating within the constraints of international law.
Framework really is working hard to be able to sell their products in other countries. It is incredibly complex and unfortunately takes longer than we all would care for it to.
It is sad how the Framework’s reasoning has evolved over time:
They ask the customer, who may not be a professional person, to do the work of a technical person. At a time when the product is under warranty.
They want the customer to pay a service fee to handle a claim. Unauthorized.
They quote their terms and conditions and paragraphs that are not in them at all.
They fabricate the loss of warranty when a private individual ships his goods on the open European market. They do not know the terms of my contract with the company where I have set up my foreign addresses. They don’t even care about them.
They put it in my mouth that I want to make a claim from another country. They do not know European legislation and are unable to support their claims by quoting German law or European legislation.
Framework has changed its statement several times as to why it will not resolve the claim. They probably do not want to resolve the complaint even though they have harmed customers by selling defective equipment.
As promised, I will add all email communication here once I remove personal data.
The company must be aware that the European market is open and they are not entitled to limit customer rights to the German market only. At the same time, I am already in communication with the European Consumer Centre, which will take over this dispute. As soon as I have their opinion available, I will publish it here again.
The question is whether Framework is open enough to address the issue. Someone told me that so far it looks like a fraudulent act by a foreign entity and an attempt to complicate the situation to the point where the customer gives up. I am disappointed and disgusted by the marketing glitz. The company is unable to make a factual argument, to back up its claim of claim termination. Amazon is fairer to its customers.
Ignoring the freight forwarding (done or not), what is wrong with the quoted? The FW Laptop is very friendly to take apart and work on. I am not a professional repairman (with certification and so on…) yet, I’ve worked with support to resolve my problem with no complains except the jet lag that can be annoying.
I don’t know what is the problem with your FW laptop, but I think your approach to handling a malfunctioning device seems to Apple-ish: work on it, don’t just put it to AppleCare hopping they’ll fix it.
I hope you will just give support a chance and troubleshoot your device with them. Worst case what they will ask you is to unplug battery and reset RTC.
All this trouble just because someone bought an repairable laptop from a new company who hasn’t even been opened the sales in his country yet without even the intension to take a look at the problem himself.
And yet he still complains. I’m with Framework on this one.
@Kamil_Hanus like I already said before, you should have gotten an Mac Book Air or Pro if you were expecting the company to do all the work for you. Why did you buy the Framework if you are not even willing to open the device? Your expectations on this whole situation were wrong from the beginning, no surprise you are disappointed with everything.
Edit: Still, please keep us updated. I am curious on how the “European Consumer Centre” responds too, as I am also in Europe and I would be curious to know how far they would help you with this.
I have no problem with the laptop. I am basically a DIY guy, and that’s the reason I bought this laptop. I opened the laptop to install the memory modules and the SSD drive. It’s not that complicated. I spent nearly a year browsing the framework website and decided to buy this laptop when Australia was open for preorder. I was actually in Australia waiting for the shipping. Unfortunately it arrived a few days after I left the country. I hope I don’t have to make any warranty claims.
I disagree. I think FW’s stance is that if the primary user resides in an unsupported region, even if purchased in supported region, qualifies as freight forwarding. Otherwise, why would freight forwarding be banned? After all, I could just as easily freight forward from me to FW as it is to do the reverse.
Looks a bit overcomplicated to me …
Also I think warranty and support is mixed up here a little bit.
I’m expecting to get warranty (at least) in the country my Framework laptop got shipped to.
But for support (excluding swap of hardware) it must not matter where I am.
On the other hand, if I don’t feel comfortable opening the laptop to do some testing (or whatever) and I didn’t order the DIY (and even then) they cannot expect me to open it and do “whatever”. Regardless of how open the system and how easy it is.
If something is broken and the device is still in warranty, it’s my right to get it fixed (of course, as long as I didn’t do something wrong and it broke).
Method of Warranty
To submit a Warranty claim, contact Framework Support at support@frame.work. If Framework determines in its sole discretion that the Product has a defect or malfunction that is covered under the Warranty, we will determine in our sole discretion whether to repair, replace, or refund the Product to resolve the issue.
If possible, Framework will provide replacement parts or modules and repair guides to enable you to self-service your Product. Framework is not responsible for any labor or equipment costs you incur self-servicing your repair. In some cases, Framework may determine that a full Product replacement is required. The replacement Product, parts, or modules may be new or refurbished items that are equivalent in performance and reliability to the original.
Freight forwarding is banned (and so is discussion regarding it on the forums), because of the situation presented in this thread: when the user is in an unsupported country and needs official support there. Support which Framework may not even legally be able to provide and as such may not be possible. This is the material point.
To put it more clearly:
Framework cannot honor warranty or repair requests from countries not supported officially. This is once again not them trying to be mean or screw people eager to support them. This is thanks to your country’s laws and regulation. It boils down to customs and taxes.
Given that FW is not opening up to every country everywhere and limiting themselves to a few at a time to ensure compliance with applicable regulation, I think we can at least guess that TOS and Warranty are compliant. Feel free to do as OP did.
I think this discussion has likely gone far enough. Whether I’m right or wrong is basically immaterial since my opinion matters not a whit. This discussion is now banned as @2disbetter has now pointed out so I suspect this thread should be locked.
Little hint: It is all completely legal and that is the point. Framework is so specific about this to be completely upfront and to operate within the bounds of law.
(And obviously, some retailers might refuse that mix of delivery/billing address, in which case I would reach out to them prior to purchase to see if there’s a way to solve this. In some cases, I just had a friend buy it for me using “gifting” functionality and then hand them cash - if it was something cheap like a game through Origin, as was one case of problems.)