Hello, I’m new here and interested in supporting the right to repair and build laptops. I watched reviews and it looks easy to build and repair for someone who’s not smart enough on computers like me. Anyways, I got alot of questions. I wanna set up with an pre build laptop, but I’m confused with the wording and what the recommendations are. I want a laptop for schooling, but also for working at home, and projects for making art, like writing, making AMVs, making youtube videos, video games (starting off small with RPG maker), and save refrence photos to follow for cosplay and art inspiration. I’m not interested in playing video games on it, because I’m sticking with consoles for gaming. I wanna ditch my smartphone and use the computer for actual computer things.
I’m planning on getting linux mint cinnamon, but only after I finish my schooling.
I’m planning on asking more questions on this form because I wanna learn, not for annoyance. Thank you! : D
If you could provide some more detail on what confuses you between the prebuilt options or why you would lean more towards one option over the other, that would be helpful!
So on the expansion bay module shell. I’m confused on the difference between the 2 and which to get. The “Graphics module” says “Configured with 8GB of GDDR6” and no idea what that means (other than “GB” means “gigabyte”).
And “Configuration System”, no idea what’s the difference between “preformance” and “Preformance pro” because both look the same, and the “windows 11” and “windows 11 pro” looks the same to me. And Idk what the difference is (this isn’t a rant or a critique. I’m just trying to learn what the difference is).
Theres some others I’d wanna know about if they’d preform well on linux mint cinnamon. But I’ll have to ask that on the Linux community side of these forms.
For the expansion bay one has a GPU (graphics card){the one with 8GB of Ram} and one doesn’t. For your use cases the on board integrated graphics should be enough probably and you could always buy a graphics module later if your work load deems it necessary or if you expand into doing some pc exclusive gaming that needs it.
As for the performance and performance pro of the 7840HS versions Windows pro vs normal/home is only difference you can check Microsofts website for differences but if you plan on going Linux anyway I would get the cheaper standard/home. The feature set between home and pro for day to day use also isn’t all that different pro is more of a power user or niche features thing.
What dose the “Configured with 8GB of GDDR6” means? I’m curious if that means it’ll only take 8 gigs of my computer (Not sure if I just answered my question, but as I said, I’m not smart with computers and I don’t wanna rely on a guess).
Note that 8Gb is probably barely enough to drive Framework 16’s internal 2560x1600 display and that if you want to drive one or more large external display(s) you’ll either need a decent videocard on a EGPU dock connected through USB 4.0 or Oculink mod, or use the internal Radeon GPU with ~16Gb of RAM assigned to it. Both the RX7700S and 5070 have a very hard time with large display resolutions (the latter surprisingly even more than the former due to some technical differences which give the RX7700S a slight advantage).
Also really take note of that last part: the iGPU has no dedicated VRAM but shares its memory with the CPU. This is a common misunderstanding I see in a lot of Framework 16 orders, either DIY or prebuilt, with new owners probably being very surprised their new system in practice doesn’t have 16Gb of system memory free but easily 12 Gb or less on the cheapest configuration depending on the workload running on the iGPU and the iGPU settings in UEFI.
To make most of the iGPU and still have enough headroom for the operating system and apps it is probably very wise to get 32Gb of RAM or more. (so basically the “Performance Pro” or “Overkill” configurations)
If you want to run some virtual machine (or other heavy) workloads and want to have adequate iGPU capabilities it is probably even more wise to get 96Gb of RAM or more (either “Performance” configuration or DIY with your own memory slotted in).
IMO, the “Performance” configuration as-is is pretty much absolute horseshit unless you only want to run purely on the discrete GPU, the RX7700S or 5070, which either run the internal display or a external display of 2560x1600 or less (with less being better, due to the capabilities for ~2560x1660 being barely adequate and for 3840x2160 an absolute no-go for both), and with a disabled integrated GPU which means the operating system and apps can use the full 16Gb of RAM coming along with it. But as the internal GPU is more power (and battery) friendly when it comes to smaller workloads you really have to ponder if you want that. The ability to drive larger display could in this case also be solved with a EGPU setup, but that makes someone like me really wonder why you didn’t invest in the base system (and unlock its full capabilities) first, especially if you are not gaming.
Personally I think it would be better for you to get a DIY. You could save some money (especially since you plan on using Linux. That’s $100 right there). Main reason why I say this is the options for the pre-built systems give very little to storage. Personally I feel like 1TB is minimum but if you don’t think you need that much you could get less. I’d suggest the 7840HS with 16 GB (2 X 8 GB) of RAM, whatever you feel necessary for storage, and expansion bay shell.
you are looking at the wrong version of the laptop for this thread, this is asking about the 7840HS version of the 16, also if you look at the use case it’s not for gaming or Ai it’s a school computer and a bit of light youtube video editing. You can run more than 1 monitor for internet browsing and school work easily on the 7840u let alone the 7840HS.
Will the computer or OS break if it ran on Linux mint cinnamon? I don’t have the knowledge of working on computers and would rather have someone build it for me. Thats why I wanna get it pre built. I know there’s tutorials on putting it together, but I’m afraid I’ll get confused and break it or missing a step I accidentally skipped.
Well, school AND long time use after. I wanna replace my smartphone and do what a computer is supposed to do that smartphones are doing now. Social media, emailing, saving pictures, checking my bank account (thats why I’m thinking about using Linux, because of copilot screenshotting whatever I’m looking up), searching for answers on a search engine (google, bing, brave, etc), etc like that.
DIY is pretty easy to do. I know I’m a more tech savvy user, but when I got my FW16 DIY there was very little I needed to do (install the RAM and SSD). I didn’t really feel like I built it given I’ve built desktops from parts before. Like 90% is pre-assembled already.
As for Linux: Framework is very Linux friendly, and although I don’t think that distribution is officially supported, I don’t expect it to be much of a problem. I know people have gotten not officially supported versions working on the FW16.
My remarks regarding the integrated GPU apply to the 7840U too. The 780M used with the 7840U/7940U, like the Radeon 890M used in the Ryzen AI 9 series, also does not have dedicated VRAM but uses system shared memory (= the memory plugged into the DDR slots on the mainboard).
And since it also can use the RX7700S in a Expansion Bay the 8Gb VRAM limitations apply to this model aswell.
Many people apparently do not know about this and order a system with way too little system memory to deal with the operating system, their apps, and the integrated GPU while it is probably better to run light tasks on the integrated GPU, especially when the system is running on the battery.
Or even worse: they order a system without a discrete GPU (and just the empty expansion shell) but with 16Gb of system memory, which will especially severely limit the memory their OS and/or the GPU can use.
The bare minimum amount for a Framework laptop in any configuration should not be 16 Gb IMO, but 24 Gb. Which means the internal GPU can use up to 8Gb of VRAM when it needs/wants to, and the operating system and apps can still use 16Gb at most. As there aren’t any 24Gb memory configurations this automatically means the minimum should be 32Gb (especially in configurations without a discrete GPU).
That is also why I think for the 7840/7940 prebuilds you should/could just skip the Performance and Performance Pro configurations and go straight for the 32Gb configuration which means you can dedicate 16Gb to the pre installed Windows (or another OS) and 16Gb to the internal GPU, or 24Gb to the pre installed Windows (or another OS) and 8Gb to the internal GPU.
To smoothly work with Windows you’ll need about 16Gb dedicated memory to run the OS and several apps, and while you can run Linux within 8-12Gb of system memory it can become a little crampy depending on the workloads running on the system. Even Gemini recommends that ideally you want 16Gb for something like KDE Plasma and several usual desktop workloads (like Chrome with quite some open tabs, a mail client, Spotify and Libreoffice running at the same time) to have enough headroom and a enjoyable experience.
Here’s something anyone should do when considering to buy a Framework laptop coming from a desktop or a laptop with GPU which has its own dedicated memory:
1> Open a system monitor (top and friends for example for Linux, Task Manager for Windows)
2> Take note of the amount of system memory in use with all your typical workloads running (also take note the amount of memory something like Netflix eats up when software decoding or hardware decoding video streams, for example)
3> Add up at least 4-8Gb of memory to keep the integrated GPU happy (especially if you want extended battery life, or do not want to use a discrete GPU)
This is the amount of system memory you realistically need to have on your laptop.
I’m currently running Windows 10 + Firefox + Steam which all require ~10Gb in total, according to Task Manager. To be absolutely safe I’ll add 8Gb (which is the usual maximum amount the internal GPU eats up). This means I’ll need at least ~18Gb for this use case to prevent extreme amounts of memory swapping to a SSD.
This also means in case of a Framework laptop with everything running on the integrated GPU 16Gb just won’t cut in and I need 32Gb to have a pleasant experience. It will not be a pleasant experience for my wallet but that’s just how it works in case of both the 7840U/7940U and Ryzen AI 9.
Also I’ve seen the HX370 already running in practice as a MiniPC (this means the internal GPU only has to drive a external display, and not the internal display and a external display which will make it demand even more memory). This system has 16Gb of total system memory. When booting up in Windows 11 the system only has ~10Gb left because the Radeon 890M has reserved ~6Gb of RAM for itselves. That’s how these kinds of setups work.
I get what you are saying in theory but I think you are overestimating the required ram for everyday tasks the average user would need.
16GB can be limiting for power users for sure but it is still sufficient for most people not wanting to game, do high end content creation such as 4k video editing or 3d modeling, or use for scientific applications.
And if anything devices like the ROG Ally have shown that even for light gaming 16GB is sufficient with the 7840.
I’m not saying more ram would be a bad thing but when working in the confines of a budget and/or looking for a preconfigured device your typical PC user would be able to get along fine with 16GB of ram.
Yeah, the only thing I’m warning about is that people think these laptops work just like a desktop or a laptop with dedicated GPU.
And while KDE + Steam and a game on a small frame buffer work perfectly fine within small memory constraints and GPUs with system shared memory (the Steam Deck has shown this in practice) a lot of other use cases might not.
Framework might recommend something but does not know what your typical workloads look like, and pretty much fully expect you to do your own homework. And my own calculations say that one of my typical PC workloads (which is just the OS + a browser and Steam running on the background) already likely barely fit within 16Gb of memory due to the demand the integrated GPU also puts on the system memory.
I’m just saying this is something you should be very aware of, because Framework will not tell you and a lot of people think a Framework laptop with 16Gb will be enough, because in their current situation they have 16Gb or system memory and a GPU with dedicated memory, while this simply might not be the case once they migrate to a 7840U/7940U (Framework 16) or Ryzen AI 7/9 (Framework 13, Framework 16 refresh) based system.
It is just something to be very aware of, because systems which are memory exhausted and are swapping to disk like crazy are not pleasant systems to work with.
Will it hurt my PC if I buy the “Graphics Module (AMD Radeon™ RX 7700S) (1st Gen)” later, incase I need it when i start wanting to work on 3D models and make 3D games, then switch and install? For “low effort” style videos that dose movie reviews that are stand up comedy like “the nestolgis critic” and “Jontron” 2010s videos, would I need the graphics module they provide? Or which would you recommend?
Sorry if I seem like I’m skipping or skimming through your messages. I’m trying not to. I just don’t know much about computers and some of the wording was confusing me. (Not trying to be rude or impolite. Excuse me if I seem that way)
The Radeon 780M, which is the integrated GPU in the 7840/7940 will perform on par with Nvidia’s Geforce 1050 TI (even slightly faster). This is a video card which shares memory with the system so you should take into account that it could take 4-8 Gb away from your RAM (which means your Linux will get 8-12Gb of system memory if you have 16Gb of physical RAM modules installed) .
This card works fine if you want to start experimenting with Blender a bit. Note that you will need start to notice that these kind of apps are quite VRAM hungry so it easily could take up to 8Gb away from your system memory depending on the project you are working on.
The RX7700S performs on par with video cards like the 12Gb version of the Geforce RTX 3060, and is about 150% faster than the integrated 780M. So this gives you a pretty big performance boost.
The only thing you will need to keep in mind is that both are mobile video cards, which normally use approximately 8Gb of (V)RAM. The 780M takes this from the system memory, and the RX7700S has its own dedicated memory. But this means that extremely high resolutions can get a bit tricky, especially with heavy workloads like 3D modelling.
External displays with a resolution up to 2560x1440 (so called Ultrawides) should be fine, and it will perform extremely well on average HD TVs or displays with a resolution of 1920x1080.
For 4K displays and TVs on their native 3840x2160 resolution you’ll probably need a different solution because these cards are simply not powerful enough for that.
Summarized: For average 1920x1080 and even a little bit larger (meaning ultrawide) external displays this laptop will perform fine, both with the integrated 780M GPU or the RX7700 in the expansion bay. Just keep in mind the 780M could (and in some scenarios will) take up to 50% of memory away from the rest of your system.
Hi Sephy!
Just taking a step back here, to get back to the uses you actually described:
This is honestly all pretty light duty stuff for a modern laptop and any of the Framework Laptop configurations should handle it easily - you could also look at the Framework 13 or 12 models which will be easier to carry to your classes, but you get a smaller screen of course.
The only things from your list that get a bit more demanding are the video editing (as rendering videos is quite compute/graphics intensive), but for making Youtube videos you would still be ok with the integrated graphics and the minimal RAM. You could think about future proofing and get a dedicated GPU, which will make video editing and 3D games much faster (either the AMD Radeon™ RX 7700S or the NVIDIA RTX 5070, those are the only Framework options at the moment). The promise of Framework is that all of these will be and remain compatible, so you could leave it for now and buy one later, when it turns out you need it (because you get more into video editing and want to render faster, or it turns out you do want to play some more demanding games) - you might even get a bargain on a second hand one from another Framework user who upgrades. Framework is pretty much the only laptop maker that allows the option of upgrading a graphics card - but note that this only works on the Framework 16! The 13 and 12 models don’t allow for a dedicated graphics card. If you decide to go for the Framework 16, but don’t buy the dedicated graphics (for now), you will need to get the expansion bay module, as that contains fans that are needed for the laptop to work. If you buy dedicated graphics (or another module that goes in that slot, which Framework may produce in the future), you can then swap this out. If you want to run high-resolution monitors off your laptop, the graphics card will also be useful (but really only if you want to game on those).
I would recommend going for at least 1Tb of storage, as that can fill up pretty quickly.
On RAM - from what you describe, I think you should get by with 16 GB. You could easily upgrade this later. But there are a couple of reasons to shell out for more now: As other users have described, the integrated graphics (which comes with all configs of the laptops) shares that RAM with the CPU, so if you don’t get dedicated graphics, rendering videos will take a bit more time. The other reason, is that in the last couple of months, RAM prices have become absolutely insane (Google RAMaggeddon or RAMpocalypse to get a flavour), because of data-center building, and those prices will likely to remain high for a couple of years. As far as I know, Framework has not increased their RAM prices yet, as they have some stock left, so this might be your best opportunity to get 32 GB RAM for a while. You won’t need more than that unless your needs change drastically (at which point you won’t need my advice anymore ).
No need to shell out for Windows Pro, the Home version will do fine for you.
Everything here will play nice with Linux, Framework supports Linux exceptionally well. The main considerations there are 1) even with the beginner-friendly distros like Mint-Cinnamon, there is a bit of a learning curve, just because some things are different than in Windows or MacOS. If you are up for learning from some Youtube videos, you’ll be fine. 2) software support. Not everything works on Linux, but generally open source software (and many non-open tools) does. So it depends how tied you are to workflows you are familiar with from other OS. E.g. instead of MSOffice, you might use LibreOffice, which doesn’t quite have all the features, but still does almost everything a regular user might want to do. Instead of Adobe Premiere, you might use DaVinci Resolve (which is equally powerful), instead of InDesign, you’d use Inkscape and so on - and you’ll never need to worry about paying licenses again. Generally there will be a way to do the same thing in Linux, if you are willing to get familiar with different software.
Gaming on Linux has come a very long way in the last few years (in a large part thanks to Valve), and most games now run without problems (and often faster than on Windows) through something called Proton.
If you want to take the plunge on Linux, you can save your money on a Windows license and go for the “no OS” option, and just download Mint-Cinnamon (or another distro) for free. You can also dual-boot, meaning having Windows and Linux on the same computer, and choose during startup, but note that it’s recommended to have two separate storage drives for that (on Framework 16 either primary 2280 SSD and secondary 2230 SSD, or using one of the swappable I/O slots for a 256 GB additional storage).
Upgradeability is what sets Framework apart so (as long as the company doesn’t go bankrupt, which is always possible, but they are doing well for now), so you will be able to buy parts later to upgrade as your needs develop, without any harm to your system. There are great instruction videos on how to do every upgrade and the only tool you need is a screwdriver (which Framework also sends you).
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