Well, that’s a pity for them as they won’t see any more money from me, if that turns out to be true.
They remove an essential functionality and then afterwards tell me “sorry, bad luck”? That for me is a trust problem which they are not going to recover from in my book.
My laptop is still working and I can use it with the hibernate workaround to circumvent the battery drain issues. But the fiddling required to just get the most fundamental thing to work on this hardware is a waste of lifetime for me at this point.
Maybe I am just going to print a case and use the board as a homelab server (that doesn’t require any sleep functionality) or hand this thing to my wife replacing her x230 as a “couch surfing” machine that’s connected to power most of the time anyway and go back to my MacBook.
As much as I love the framework idea, I hate being kicked in the nuts after 3 years being left with less than before. Good luck to everyone - updating BIOS can leave you with a handicapped laptop with no way back - good work framework…
@lvdd Did you try to use nvme.noacpi=1 as boot parameter? It drastically reduced the battery drain in s2idle for me to a similar level as deep (~ 0.5%/h).
Which of the Windows states s0, (. . . . s3 s4 etc.) do you consider ‘deep’
I don’t know the Windows states, but it should be s3.
I’m stubborn and still trying to figure out why both of my 11th gen systems suspend and resume with no issues. Poor @lvdd ran through about eleventybillion different scenarios and didn’t get anywhere with determining why his system does not come back. It feels like a driver not reloading properly, but I am way out over my skis on this. I am just a dumb end user, tinkering and plinking away on the machine. I would love it if we could get an engineer (not Support - nothing against Support, but this is out of their realm as well) that would work with us to test working and non-working systems to try to narrow things down.
Hi Kieran,
thanks for chiming in.
There are a couple of links I posted with information about my system and the systemd journal during the death-loop. Also there is a description there how to reproduce it - at least on my laptop. The distribution doesn’t matter as I can easily reproduce it with Fedora 40, Debian stable and Archlinux.
The process for me is always the same:
Install a base system with Gnome (for convenience)
Add mem_sleep_default=deep via grub to the commandline
put the laptop to sleep via powerbutton
It goes to sleep but is not waking up anymore with the effect I have outlined here: Sleep issues after 3.19 BIOS update - 11th Gen Intel Framework 13 - #28 by lvdd
The point here is that this happened after I upgraded the BIOS from 3.17 to 3.20. All of the above was working fine before. Which lets me believe that this is not an issue with Linux Kernel changes but something being introduced with the BIOS.
If I could somehow go back to 3.17 I would do that and never touch BIOS again.
@lvdd for the bios update to 3.20 we updated the core bios kernel from Insyde, and CSME, and I suspect a change in there may have broken this somehow. Your support request got to me, and I was the one who gave the statement that S3 sleep is not supported.
This is actually the official stance of Intel supported sleep states from Intel. So even though it previously did work is was not an officially supported configuration.
We can do a quick pass to see if there was something that changed which caused this to be removed, however this may be something in CSME or other components which is not fixable by us. So no guarantees if this can be fixed, and no set timeline. (I would continue to operate under the assumption that this is not going to be fixed for now).
I would have to go back and measure again for this release, but we have generally found that Linux does a much better job with S0ix sleep power drain than windows. Eg on older intel platforms I think we were ball-parking around 300mW for Windows, and around 260mW for Linux.
I can tell you that S0 is definitely not better on my system. When I put the laptop into suspend with s2idle in the evening with 10-15% battery left, it is dead the next morning with the battery fully drained, which was not the case with S3. I quite often have the situation that the system pretends to go into suspend - turning display off and powerbutton flashing but the fan keeps actually running and the system stays warm to the touch. I got into the habit of listening on the backside of the laptop to make sure it really has gone to sleep. That has always been the case since I got it and I was happy when S3 was working after a while.
Ok, that means I have a laptop with a crappy CPU that got actively crippled by some moronic Intel decision? I didn’t know that and I am not sure I should be required to dig that deep into CPU design to learn about these traps upfront. That means I now have to get hibernate running as this is the only way to keep this laptop useful for me.
All of that is deeply disappointing and already shaped my decision making for the future.
BTW: It would really be beneficial to have a sleep indicator on the side of the laptop and not just with the powerbutton, as it is impossible to see with the screen closed.
I wonder how many people are actually not aware of the sub-par out-of-the-box behavior under Linux because they use their devices differently, so they don’t run into these things - at least not right away.
It’s a bit of a joke, that the community needs to debug this instead of their own QA, but deep sleep is no longer working for me either after the 3.20 update on Ubuntu:
There is s2idle (S0) and there is deep (S3). You can find out what your system is doing via the command:
cat /sys/power/mem_sleep
I expect it to be s2idle in your case and you can try to change it to deep and see if you’re affected as well.
The point here is that S3 is the better mode to use to reduce battery drain as S3 puts most components to sleep compared to S0 - which at least on framework laptops is not nearly as good as stated in other places. Also the reason why you Ubuntu ate 28% of the battery while in suspend.
The best writeup on the battery consumption on framework laptops I have found so far is the following blog. This is for the 12th gen though, but gives you an idea of what kind of skillset you require to dig into the mess that is suspend modes in Linux in general and in combination with Intel CPU in particular. https://anarc.at/hardware/laptop/framework-12th-gen/
