Availability for Switzerland

General Topics
65

Did frame work already try some initiative? If yes, you could share the contacts or the department. So we can push into the same hole and “help” you. I am sure some people would help.

You must know for swiss people a freight forwarding or a freight depot service in Germany is almost mandatory. Prices can be with easy 30-50% cheaper. Not talking about frame work here. However I’am aware there are many frauds be done with shipping depots, though understanding the considerations of frame work concerning losses.
Altought we might have e really good law system, it does not prevent politics to not act in citizens mind. But that’s of topic.

But the suggestion of @MJ1 is legit. Used laptops is a perfect solution. A private person can sell the frame work laptop as used and hint there is no warranty. I think it should be legit to do so even if the device is younger than 2 years. Since frame work has no official support and shipping to Switzerland, they can not be made responsible. So a laptop is actually used, after it is turned on once. Hope this post is still in guidelines (feel free to adapt if needed)

66

Note that I was talking about legitimately used laptops, not 1 day old, 1-week-old, etc, “used” laptops, which look like just resellers trying to make a profit off of people. I’m talking more like maybe 1-2 year old laptops. Some people do upgrade every year.

I’d suggest not talking about turned-on-once “used” laptops. And definitely not freight forwarding, even if one says they aren’t talking about FW laptops. I think the issue with these is, one has to understand that some countries purposely make it hard and slow for foreign companies to get approved to sell there. If they see a company “turning a blind eye” to customers talking about methods or schemes to get around their laws and regulations, they can try to blame the company. Saying that turning a blind eye is condoning it & use that as an excuse to further impede the process. So understand that FW deleting such talk or locking threads is in pursuit of making Framework directly available to you sooner rather than later. “Better safe than sorry.” And regardless if one agrees, such talk has got threads locked.

67

So I did request BAKOM by Mail. Anybody else can also try it.
Link to Bakom EN

Basically asking them why shiping to Switzerland is not allowed whereas to EU frame work can ship. I keep you updated, as the subject is important to me. Kind of hate this e waste of nowadays. @ #Apple #Lenovo #HP #all other big tec

68

Update here:

I got the answer of Bakom. Feel free to translate it, as I am only allowed to share it without modification. The full document can be provided on demand. I am not allowed to upload .pdf and it would be a huge message.

According to the response, since frame work has no dealership in Switzerland and shipps from Taiwan, the swiss citizen takes the role as an importer. Thus, he/she is responsible to import legal products. see here:

Die gesetzliche Definition des “Importeurs” lautet wie folgt (FAV Art. 2 Begriffe):

Importeurin: jede in der Schweiz ansässige natürliche oder juristische Person, die eine Fernmeldeanlage aus dem Ausland auf dem Schweizer Markt in Verkehr bringt;

Wie bereits im letzten Mail erwähnt: Wenn Sie ein Produkt im Ausland bestellen und in die Schweiz liefern lassen, sind Sie Importeur dieses Produkts und somit verantwortlich dafür, dass das Produkt den geltenden Vorschriften entspricht.

Since a product is approved in EU it is also allowed in Switzerland. Only the manufacturer can answer the question why they do not ship to Switzerland.

Ihre Frage/Aussage: Framework sendet jedoch in die EU. Darum können sie doch auch in die Schweiz senden, weil die Geräte ja 1:1 gleich sind.

Die einzige Stelle, die Ihnen Auskunft über die Gründe geben kann, ist das Unternehmen selbst. Wenn ein Produkt in die EU importiert wird und alle in der EU geltenden Bestimmungen erfüllt, kann es meines Erachtens zu diesem Zeitpunkt auch in die Schweiz importiert werden, da zu diesem Zeitpunkt die gleichen Bestimmungen gelten.

Wenn es zu einem späteren Zeitpunkt als Lagerware aus der EU in die Schweiz exportiert wird und sich die anwendbaren Normen oder Bestimmungen geändert haben, kann es sein, dass das Produkt zu diesem neuen Zeitpunkt nicht mehr den zu diesem Zeitpunkt anwendbaren Bestimmungen entspricht (diesen Punkt habe ich auch in meiner ersten Antwort erwähnt) und somit nicht mehr konform wäre.

But there are some points to concern, however, they seem not to be a big problem. The Wifi power has to fulfill the local limitations of 0.1W. No big deal and easy to handle for framework.
Remove 1W modules or ship without.

Es ist richtig, dass es Normen für Funkprodukte gibt. Die Normen für die Nutzung des Spektrums und die EMV sind jedoch in den USA und in Europa nicht die gleichen (es
handelt sich nicht um Protokollnormen nach z.B. 802.11 xx, welche die Kompatibilität zwischen den verschiedenen WLAN-Geräten sicherstellen sollen → Protokolle nach 802.11 xx sind keine Anforderungen des BAKOM). Auch die Frequenznutzung ist unterschiedlich.
Im 2.4 GHz Frequenzband ist in der EU und der Schweiz eine maximale Sendeleistung von 100mW (0.1 Watt) erlaubt, in den USA hingegen 1 Watt. Ob man ein handelsübliches Notebook ganz ohne Funk kaufen kann, kann ich nicht beurteilen.

This is the most curcial point and I am pretty sure frame work does fulfill this point about the CE sign:

Sowohl in der EU als auch in der Schweiz liegt die Bereitstellung auf dem Markt in der Verantwortung der Marktakteure, d.h. auch ein nicht konformes
Gerät kann auf den Markt gebracht werden. Der Hersteller entscheidet, ob er das CE-Zeichen auf dem Gerät anbringt oder nicht. Er sollte dies nur tun, wenn er sich davon überzeugt hat, dass sein Produkt den EU-Vorschriften entspricht.

Ob diese Vorschriften eingehalten werden, wird stichprobenartig von den Aufsichtsbehörden überprüft. Wenn nicht, werden Sanktionen verhängt.
Konkret bedeutet dies, dass ein Produkt nicht automatisch konform ist, nur weil es in der EU auf dem Markt ist.

So all in all I do not see any significant hurdle to block the shipping to Switzerland. Please @Frame work, consider the supported informations and the contact person in order to open finally shipping to Switzerland. Any supporter, please upvote the comment.

Links provided:
Die gesetzliche Definition des “Importeurs” lautet wie folgt (FAV Art. 2 Begriffe):
Hier haben Sie als Ergänzung noch den Leitfaden für den Import von Funkanlagen: Kauf von Funkanlagen im Ausland für den Eigengebrauch
Grundsätzlich gilt: Die gesetzlichen Bestimmungen im Bereich EMV und Funk sind identisch mit den jeweiligen europäischen Richtlinien.
Ein Notebook mit Wireless-Funktionalitäten wird zur Funkanlage. In der Verordnung über Fernmeldeanlagen (FAV) wird der Aspekt von gebrauchten Geräten im 7. Kapitel behandelt

4 Likes
69

The wifi regulatory compliance thing is handled by the wifi cards/their drivers themselves and not really part of the laptop. But if that’s the issue just ship them without wifi, ax210s are very easy to get here.

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Yeah, and even shipping with those card sould be no issue.
Otherwise you could not buy a small knife, because instead of cutting an apple you could kill a human.

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One doesn’t necessarily have to mean the other, you should not depend on bureaucrats using logic.

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the Wifi limitation of 0.1W is the same in both EU and CH, so if these computers are ok in the EU, they are ok in CH.

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Do you really think the person in charge at Framework doesnt know all this?

IMHO the swiss market is just not interesting for them.

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As @Morpheus636 said:

Framework would be breaking Swiss law if they allowed you to purchase for import to Switzerland without completing VAT registration and the Swiss government’s rigorous electronics certification process (Switzerland accepts CE markings for the overlapping requirements, but there are additional regulatory requirements that only apply in Switzerland.)

It seems the regulations are not that different to the EU. Also they would only need to hint the customer, that he will have to pay taxes when the goods are delivered. Something swiss people might be used to already.

Another problem seems to be the warranty and return. As shipping to Taiwan might be very expensive.

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Well, I’ll come back later for a Framework laptop, but my old XPS13 died last Monday, and I’ve just ordered its Lenovo replacement (T14s).

If I am honest, yes I could have cheated a bit with the delivery address but in any case I need a new computer yesterday ! right now ! or even sooner if possible :smiley:

I’ll now peacefully wait for availability in Switzerland… (and for proper support of the AMD NPU in the Linux kernel)

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Framework delivers a really good product, but when it comes to communication, they are really no better/honest than other manufacturers.
Import/export to switzerland is not a big deal if you´re already in the EU, this is definitely because framework doesn’t want to (cost vs profit reasons).
Framework would need a legal representative in switzerland (costs money), then the registration for VAT, for example, would also be quite easy to do online.
The statements here are at least incorrect or simply wrong

1 Like
77

no more voices?

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Any guesses, why it was there for such a short time? Was it just by mistake? Did this happen with other keyboard options too?

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there was other layouts (like the Thaï one if I remember correctly), I have no idea why they where removed (I’m not a Framework employee) but my guess is that it’s complicated to manage both the new models production and opening new markets.