It’s not their fault if there are regulatory hurdles that are beyond their control. I’m sure they wouldn’t hesitate to bring it there if all it took was the press of a button.
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It’s good that nobody forces you to buy from them.
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There shouldn’t be a problem with switzerland since framework is selling in EU. As growing Company the real reason is possibly that switzerland is quite a small market with three keyboard-layouts. so cost-income projections aren’t as high as for other countries, so switzerland as a market is low priority. I think that’s the real reason, however no company will say that directly… So no frameworks for us…
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But Switzerland is not in the EU.
No, Framework need to set up a relationship and get the needed tax details with the Swiss tax and customs authorities before they will sell there. It is the same for all countries.
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Switzerland has only two keyboard layouts (de-CH and fr-CH) that differ at 3 keys and it seems framework has already plans to develop it (Request: Review of Framework Laptop 16 Keyboard Layouts - #23 by Matt_Hartley).
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The form lends some transparency to the situation. Given the absence of information, people will self-organize.
Thanks for mentioning that, this is certainly a reason for manufacturers to prioritize CH lower than some other markets.
Why don’t Swiss users switch to a more common, reasonable keyboard layout? “US Interational” would be a perfect replacement, as the physical US 101 keys style layout is available for absolutely EVERY machine imaginable, plus with the “US International” layout you can easily and fluently type almost all European languages in Latin character set, and it is far better for coding.
Example: the Netherlands also have a custom, nationalised keyboard layout, just like Switzerland. But nobody uses it anymore, since the pragmatic Dutch just decided to switch to US International many years ago. Nowadays, if you buy a computer in NL, you get a US International 101-keys style keyboard as default with it. Not sure if the ancient Dutch keyboard layout is still available anywhere. The result: Dutch people can buy ANY computer-like device, because all support a US style layout, and just use it! Now isn’t this clever? Instead of sticking to ancient, useless custom solutions from the days of typewriters, and get stuck on a market that is just too small (although larger than CH), they just pick a common option, which in addition is also better than the old one!
I will show you why it is better:
I am using a US International (AltGr variant) keyboard layout right now (instead of the German Layout, which is worse than the Swiss), and I can not just code better, as the US layout is clearly better in this respect, but also fluently and easily write allmost all European languages in latin characters:
Deutsch (Tüütsch) funktioniert mit diesem Layout wunderbar: äüö, und ß für die Flachländer.
Français s`écrit facilement aussi: éêèáâàœ
¡Español también es bueno para escribir!
etc.
I personally switched from the German Keyboard layout 12 years ago, and would never switch back.
I believe Switzerland would benefit a lot from dropping those useless, randomly designed keyboard variants. There is no advantage for anyone in sticking to this stuff. Also you could just buy and use ANY device, if you were familiar with a US layout.
It won’t happen, habbits are ingrained, look at how successful the Bépo and other alternative keyboards are, it’s about the same situation. Also, there is only one CH layout, with some options to enable/disable language specifics. Not three.
look, there is a keyboard option !
so, not right now but not too far in the future 
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That’s a great find! Nice!!
oh well, it has been removed and it’s not available for the moment…
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In my understanding switzerland accepts CE certified IT products (those allowed in the EU) without additional certification. Why not just allow the laptop to be sold to switzerland without creating special keyboard layouts? Most of swiss tech guys are fine with an english keyboard…
I have been asking them one year ago. They proposed to subscribe and show my interest. Nothing happened, so I wrote to the customer support 3 weeks ago. Asking if they could at least offer the shipping to Switzerland. I don’t care about a missing swiss keyboard. The market is too small and there are other options, like ordering a black keyboard and let someone laser engrave it. But offer us the shipping!!
There is no reason to not ship to Switzerland. Put a note there will be custom duties to pay when the laptop arrives. That is normal here.
There are many reasons. To name a few: Switzerland has strict rules for foreign countries that wish to do business with Swiss residents in Switzerland, more so than most countries. Framework would be breaking Swiss law if they allowed you to purchase for import to Switzerland without completing VAT registration and the Swiss government’s rigorous electronics certification process (Switzerland accepts CE markings for the overlapping requirements, but there are additional regulatory requirements that only apply in Switzerland.) This applies whether or not they shifted the burden for import duties and customs onto the consumer, which is an all around negative customer experience, no matter how common it is. They would also have to ensure compliance with Swiss consumer protection and warranty laws (which may involve consulting attorneys familiar with Swiss law — $$$), set up a logistics and reverse logistics network in the country for original delivery and warranty service, etc.
If they allowed you to order without following regulations, it could jepordize any potential future route to doing business legally in Switzerland, which would be counterproductive in the long run. It would also result in negative PR from people who bought a lapop in a country for which Framework does not have the network to provide warranty service. Trust me, Framework wants to be everywhere in the world — they have no reason to artificially limit the number of people who can give them money — it’s just a lot more effort than you realize.
Registering interest helps them prioritize where they allocate resources for expansion, but it doesn’t change the cost and regulatory hurdles/delays. If you want to change that, talk to your government.
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@Centurio Using freight forwarding outside of the EEA is against Framework’s terms of sale, as is acting as an unauthorized reseller. If individuals proceed by entering invalid/incorrect billing information, their order will be subject to cancelation/refund, and their payment method may be subject to blacklist. If the order does proceed, they are acknowledging that Framework is not responsible for anything that may happen as a result of not utilizing Framework’s direct shipping to a supported country/region, and that they are fully accountable for any additional costs incurred, or documentation required.
As such we do not allow discussion of it on any official Framework platform.Your message has been removed for that reason. If it comes up again, this thread will be closed. For more information, see the Framework terms of sale at Framework | Terms of Sale and the Community Guidelines.
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Sorry to not respecting the guidelines with my (deleted) post. But this again proofs to me, there is no way to get the frame work products in Switzerland anytime soon.
I think the importing subject you mention is not that difficult to resolve. But not having dealers in Switzerland (what I think is very good), does on the other hand collide with warranty and return. It is really very expensive and a big hassle to send goods to different countries (out of Switzerland).
Talking to goverment seems to earn little success. But I might try it anyway. But what part? Custom / duties oder maybe electronic authorization department? Looks like a hard way to go. But at least I now know where to dig. Thanks Morpheus636
I’d like to add one more thing:
Swiss people are absolutely interested in your products. We’ve been patiently waiting for a shipping release date, but we never get a clear answer. The only time we see any reaction is when someone finds a workaround — and then they get threatened with having their post or even the entire thread deleted.
Honestly, it really feels like you don’t care about us at all.
That “workaround” has always been against Framework’s ToS for the reasons that Morpheus has mentioned. In addition, this is not a Framework-specific thing. A lot of companies prohibit freight forwarding because a) they don’t legally have permission to sell in that country, b) they cannot provide assistance to people that freight forward, and c) it opens them up to losses. As for comments being removed, this is in our Community Guidelines and has been there for a long time.
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If you want them to change overly burdensome regulations, I would start by calling or writing to your elected representatives and explaining how they are negatively affecting you as a consumer. Alternatively, Switzerland has a robust process for citizen referendums to require the government to change the law, so you could start a campaign for that. Both are difficult, but they are the only tools at your disposal. (That referendum process is actually the reason for this whole mess — if Swiss voters did not vote against a resolution in 1992, Switzerland would be an EEA member and thus Framework would be available there).
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For anyone in Switzerland (or anyplace else for that matter) consider getting a second-hand Framework. I don’t recall Framework ever trying to be against private sales of used laptops, or the discussion of it. As long as it’s not a brand-new laptop that is clearly just a reseller. There is even the community market right here on the forum, Community Market - Framework Community
Even for items covered by copyright, like books or CDs, one can not legitimately be stopped from selling their property after they no longer need it, in order to recover some money, see wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine.
Other options for second-hand FW laptops:
Framework market subreddit, reddit.com/r/frameworkmarket
Ebay FW laptop search, (framework,“frame work”)(laptop,gen,i5,i7,1340P,1360P,1370P,“Core Ultra”,intel,7640U,7840U,amd,Ryzen,ram,ssd) in Laptops & Netbooks. This search should have the shipping location / buyer location set to Switzerland. So it should only show sellers that have shipping to Switzerland as an option.
Of course, being in a location that FW can’t serve will mean that if the laptop has any warranty left on it, you unfortunately won’t be able to use it at this time.
Frame-parts is available if you need any replacement components, frame-parts.myshopify.com. Worldwide shipping, not-for-profit. And note that they say on the front page: “If you need a part that is not on the website, just get in touch and we can order it in for you”. Some people miss that part.
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