I wasn’t going to say anything outside of an email but I think this is quite urgent.
I’m only allowed 2 attachments, but £849 is $1,076 USD.
I don’t want framework to get a reputational hit because of this but UK customers and any other international customers affected should be compensated.
First, welcome to the community! Next, this has been discussed many times, and those threads likely have better and more accurate information than this, but I believe that a large factor is that the US price does not include tax (as that varies by state in the US), while the UK/EU prices do include tax (VAT?). I hope that this helps at least somewhat. Have a great day.
If thats the case then thats fine. I dont see how it can get more accurate than screenshots but yeah.
Thanks for your response!
Re accuracy I meant more accurate than my recollection. I should have been more clear about that. Nice to have you on the forum!
Hello @Owen_Williams,
I assure you this is not urgent or an issue. As the others have stated, the United States is tax “exclusive” as taxes are managed at a granular level depending on geographic location within the country (State/City) and are not included in the displayed price. Tax is added on top of the total price once it’s calculated when a shipping address is entered.
Europe is tax “inclusive” which means the VAT is included in the total pricing displayed.
And to be very clear to those reading this - the VAT rate in the UK is 20%. For a fair comparison, you need to add this to the USD price too. So to do the maths all the way:
US Price + 20% tax: $849 + 20% = $1019
USD Price + tax converted to GBP using today’s rough exchange rate: ~£803
So, the UK variant of the laptop is still a little more expensive (by 5-6%), which well within the “typical” margin for internationally-operating companies - especially those who consider the USD their “home” currency - they add in a bit of a buffer to account for exchange rate fluctuations. Whether that is fair is another discussion, but Framework isn’t out of the industry norms here.
You also get 2 years warranty in the UK and EU instead of one year in the US. This also increases the price a little bit.
This is one thing that really rubs me the wrong way. Framework should be standing behind their product and offering a fair (equal) warranty no matter where you live.
I want to understand what you mean, is it just 1 year vs 2 years in different regions or is there something else that makes you think that Framework’s warranty is not fair/equal.
Yes of course, it’s just the fact they do not provide the same warranty across the board. The bare minimum required by law is what that conveys…as in, there would be no warranty at all if allowed by law. There has even been a post by someone in a specific state that did, in fact, require a 2 year warranty and Framework changed their cause of damage to user caused as soon as the user pointed out such warranty requirement.
And I understand this isn’t exclusive to Framework. All I’m saying is it doesn’t convey confidence in the product. Personally, I try to fix things myself and avoid warranty process as much as possible. But having that re-assurance by the company helps trust tremendously.
To bring up a recent product as an example. The Steam Deck, which officially also has a 1 year warranty. I frequent Steam Deck social media just like I do Framework and in contrast, have seen many examples of a Steam Deck breaking out of warranty and Valve still honoring it as a courtesy.
Another reason for the difference will be a difference in freight charges. I don’t know what the landing charges at airports in the US are like, but they are regarded as pretty high here in the UK, so when FedEx (or whoever) lands a plane here there will be that charge as part of the shipment.
When passengers are going through airports they won’t see the landing charge as it is just included in the ticket price.
If the plane is going to Europe instead of the UK, then the shipment being trucked to the UK there will be additional customs checks, first in Europe to make sure the shipment is carried bonded from the entry point to the UK, then finally checked through customs into the UK.
All these little steps add £5 here or £10 there to the end user price - and entry into the UK will include VAT on the shipping cost.
@jared_kidd Can you please link to the post please? I am not aware of this, and the standard warranty period for the United States is 1 year. We offer a warranty period which is compliant, by law, in the countries that we officially enter. We have a 2 year warranty in the EU as that is what is required, by law. We have a 3 year warranty in Spain specifically, as again, that is required, by law.
While we absolutely follow the terms of our Limited Warranty as documented, there have been one-time exceptions made in certain situations after review by Support leadership, but in general, the stated warranty term is followed. The length of warranty term does not determine or define our commitment to product quality. Stating otherwise is disingenuous.
This is the thread.
While I feel for the guy and hope things work out for him, I feel like he went about things completely wrong. Just whining to anyone who would listen and making unwarranted threats.
Ahh, yes, I specifically managed this case along with our Customer Operations Lead. Not relevant to this topic, whatsoever.
Again, I’m just saying it’s the prescription from things I have read (and the fact those threads usually get locked). If there have been exceptions made where warranted, as you say, that’s great to hear. I’m just trying to offer some constructive criticism.
To end on a positive, I’m looking forward to my framework 16 batch 1 order and can’t wait to make it my personal/gaming/work laptop. I want this company to succeed and be known for good products and support of them.
