Every “generation” can work without a battery, but I thought the initial, 11th gen Intel mainboards initially required a firmware update in order to work “standalone.” I could be wrong, but I thought there was talk about that when they first released. People were wanting to use the boards in projects and such without a battery, and Framework had to add the ability to work without a battery to the firmware. Maybe I’m misremembering.
1 Like
In the notes from BIOS 3.06 for the 11th gen Intel boards it says they “added initial support” for booting without a battery. So I was remembering correctly. I don’t think the very first mainboards could boot without a battery until after this BIOS update. If you had a batch 4 machine and never updated it, it’s possible it had an earlier BIOS and couldn’t boot without a battery.
2 Likes
Ok, so that theory’s back on the table. thanks.
my laptop was shipped about 10 days before that bios update announcement.
summary: new mainboard works. battery bad. likely old mainboard will work too with battery. will get new battery and prove that out
Update.
ended up getting a used mainboard. and the machine booted. (bios 3.10)
[fess]% sudo framework_tool --versions
...
UEFI BIOS
Version: 03.10
...
but, I should have gotten a battery first. battery is not showing up as attached.
[fess]% sudo framework_tool --power
Charger Status
AC is: connected
Charger Voltage: 17600mV
Charger Current: 72mA
Chg Input Current:4084mA
Battery SoC: 0%
Battery Status
AC is: connected
Battery is: not connected
Error: "Fail"
i did get ectool installed. (after some trouble finding out how)
So now I can check it with ectool battery
interestingly the battery is seen by the Embedded Controller (EC) but it’s at avg 2.913v/cell I’m guessing the bms thinks that’s too low to charge or possibly one cell actually is lower.. I may open it up out of further curiosity.
[fess]% sudo ectool battery
EC result 3 (INVALID_PARAM)
Battery info:
OEM name: NVT
Model number: Framewo
Chemistry : LION
Serial number: 0066
Design capacity: 3572 mAh
Last full charge: 2568 mAh
Design output voltage 15400 mV
Cycle count 160
Present voltage 11645 mV
Present current 0 mA
Remaining capacity 0 mAh
Flags 0x09 AC_PRESENT CHARGING
So I’ll get a battery at some point. probably recover my old mainboard, and up it’s bios and prove out the rest of the theory that it just had too old a bios to boot without a battery.
I didn’t figure this out.. but talking to the EC on the old mainboard via Closed Case Debugger (CCD) would have saved me getting another mainboard. so it was a good idea.
1 Like
Hi,
If you did install that version of ectool
Try:
sudo ectool battery 0
(With a zero at the end)
It outputs a few more lines of info.
specifically, something like:
Desired voltage 17800 mV
Desired current 5491 mA
If the Desired current is zero, it will never charge again.
But if you can get 100mA going into it, it might slowly recover. Any more than 100mA will probably damage it further.
But, at first look, it appears your battery is dead because remaining capacity == 0 mAh which is 0% charge.
hmm. I didn’t get the "Desired " values.
(realized i had built the dhowllet version, rebuilt the jcdutton version still didn’t work )
framework1 ectool/build ‹jcdutton*› » sudo ectool-jcdutton battery 0
interfaces:0xffffffff
comm_init_dev being used /dev/cros_ec
EC result 3 (INVALID_PARAM)
Battery info:
OEM name: NVT
Model number: Framewo
Chemistry : LION
Serial number: 0066
Design capacity: 3572 mAh
Last full charge: 2576 mAh
Design output voltage 15400 mV
Cycle count 160
Present voltage 11661 mV
Present current 0 mA
Remaining capacity 0 mAh
Flags 0x09 AC_PRESENT CHARGING
battery is definitely dead
I was able with some hot air, a spudger, and care to peel back the bottom cover just enough to get a multimeter on the individual lipo cell tabs. (blue masking tape is now holding bottom cover back)
one cell at 0.4v. the other three around 3.7v
so. good job bms not letting that try to charge back up. 
2 Likes
That has been an issue for a while. I wonder how long until they get stock to other warehouses? I think the issue is shipping restrictions for lithium batteries that are not installed in a product. They probably have to ship (literally on a ship) batteries to local warehouses, where they can be sent via ground shipping from there. When I look on the marketplace, I see the 55Wh seems to be in stock, but not the 61Wh.
teah, when you try to buy the 55wh it says the above. “you can only purchase it when combind with a laptop”
Oh, bummer. I thought only the 61Wh was out of stock. Hopefully Framework is pushing to get batteries back in stock. Thanks for the clarification.
Try contacting Support. Previously they had to verify that machines were on firmware that could handle the 61Wh battery. I think that is no longer the case, but it won’t hurt to reach out and see if they can get you set up.
1 Like
In my last message wtih support they. Said they could help me place a manual order for the 61wh but they don’t know when any 55wh batteries will be in stock, and it’s not clear i can boot the fw13 11th gen with original firmware ( < 3.06 ) on the 61wh. They recommend I wait till the 55wh. is available again.
I wish they could estimate how long we’ll be waiting.
What about buying off a third party seller? hmm.
1 Like
Interesting and nice that parts are starting to show up elsewhere. Very questionable if one should get a 3rd-part battery off aliexpress, but for other parts it’s always good to have options, even if quality is an open question.
1 Like
1 Like
welp I did bite the bullet.
hope it works out. arrives this week.
welp. it didn’t work.
but the seller refunded the money. they also said they had no more in stock to try again.
support had led me to believe that my fw 3.02 11th gen needed a 56wh battery.
unsure if the 61wh would suffice to test the theory that my fw 3.02 11th gen just needed a battery to boot. mentioned above, I tried an aftermarket battery. which was doa.
waited for the framework 56wh battery to be in stock again, and now it isn’t even listed.
finally found a friend with a 56wh battery to lend.
and.. with the functional battery the 3.02 bios 11th gen board actually booted. Yay.
it was just a bad battery all along.
so you called it @BigT thanks!
Also, i suspect the 61wh battery would have done the trick as well.
now. to figure out how to bring this old bios up to date.
1 Like
bios update from 3.02 to 3.17 went well.
and now the board boots without a battery attached.
1 Like