After submitting the issue to Framework support earlier, I thought I might share this with the community as well.
We have two FW13 Core Ultra 5 125H laptops and are experiencing problems with our external monitors. In short, the USB and power delivery works fine but the video only works with a 0.8 m cable that shipped with the monitor.
We’ve tried all combinations with the following components with reproducible results. Cables
Cable #1: CableMatters Thunderbolt 4 (certified) 2.0 m USB-C Cable
Cable #2: USB-C Cable 0.8 m (came with the Dell U2520D)
Cable #3: OWC Thunderbolt 4 (certified) 2.0 m USB-C Cable Computers
2x FW 13 running Windows 11 Pro 23H2
1x Surface Book 2 (13.5”) running Windows 11 Pro 23H2
2x Lenovo Thinkpad running Windows 11 Monitors
Dell U2723QE
Dell U2520D
Whenever using a FW13 with any of the 2.0 m Thunderbolt 4 cables, the display is not recognized and no video output is transmitted. When reverting to the 0.8 m USB-C cable that Dell shipped with the monitor, it works fine. On all other laptops, either combination works fine.
I also tried bypassing the adapter card on one FW13 by directly plugging the cable into the mainboard’s USB-C port with the same result.
My impression is that the issue lies with the FW13s, not any of the other components. However, I can’t figure out why this is the case and what I could try to solve it.
If you have an idea on what to do or simply are experiencing the same issue, feel free to jump in.
Connecting external monitors with the Framework Laptop’s USB C can be quite a bit finicky. There have been quite a few reports of USB C display devices not working but plugging in with an HDMI cable does work.
If you haven’t yet, try plugging in the cable to all the different ports on the Framework Laptop to see if one of them works.
If you have an HDMI cable, try using that. It seems like the 0.8m cable is just USB C while the other ones are Thunderbolt 4, so try using a regular USB C cable that supports video.
I know the thread is a month old, but same behavior on my end, core ultra 5. I upgraded from an 11th gen i7 mainboard, which worked as expected with the same external monitors and cables i’m currently using. The old board in a 3d printed case still works with the 1 usb c cable to the monitor.
Trying to power the monitor with a separate auxiliary cable also doesn’t work, i just need to fall back to hdmi to use the monitors.
Just completed the update and ran through the different connection combinations (including directly into the mainbaord), unfortunately the same behavior remains, monitor gets power but no display through single cable. I’m curious to see if the beta BIOS resolves @CBee’s issue.
Thanks for the responses and trial-and-error diagnosis regarding the beta BIOS.
I’ve been in contact with FW support for quite a while now and they have recently escalated the issue.
The last diagnosis step I took (together with FW support) was to boot into a Live USB Ubuntu instead of Windows and trying to connect the display there.
Same result as in Windows - USB uplink working fine, but no display signal with the active cable. When swapping the active cable for a passive one, everything works fine.
I’ll try to keep you updated asap if I learn anything new.
You can definitely let support know about @Gregory_Petrillo 's experiment. Since they own both 11th Gen and Core Ultra, and the same monitor+cable work on 11th Gen but not Core Ultra. IMO that’s pretty clear cut, and a good place where Framework’s engineer might want to have a look at.
Sent Windows event logs to FW support on request. No specific feedback.
Framework replied with the following e-mail:
After a thorough review of this ticket, the issue seems to be isolated to the external devices you are using since the monitors are working with the 0.8m cable and using a different cable that didn’t come with the Dell monitor. We recommend contacting Dell support at the moment since the cable that came from Dell with the 0.8m cable is working fine. You may need to confirm to them the functionalities that are available with the cable that was provided. Which includes whether it supports the specific USB C port from the monitor, or does it only support specific ports from your monitor. You also need to confirm which ports work with the USB C cable provided by Dell 0.8m cable.
Note: If anyone can derive any sense from this e-mail, please help me out here. Thanks.
Received a " How was your experience with Framework Support?" e-mail afterwards and dutifully filled out that form.
Today, I sent another email reiterating what we have established (including a link to @Gregory_Petrillo’s post) and requested them to explain their efforts in reproducing or analyzing the problem so far.
To me, it’s just mind-boggling: Two different monitors, two different TB4 cables, a total of at least 4 laptops that work fine and two Framework Ultras that don’t. Then add @Gregory_Petrillo’s case of a Framework 11th Gen working, but the Core Ultra not. And their conclusion is: “It’s gotta be the user and/or his monitor.”.
Maybe I’m just getting annoyed by this issue, but my experience with Framework support feels really bizarre. It seems to me like there’s absolutely no serious technical analysis going on. Just ChatGPTesque requests to keep the customer occupied.
There is some grammar and words missing in the message that Framework sent back from the support team.
If I am reading it correctly (between the lines); they want you to contact Dell and find out the capabilities of the Cable (modes, ranges, ratings) and if they confirmed it works with display modes (or which display modes).
Though if it is a Thunderbolt 4 cable; I would imagine it should support almost everything. Though being as the 0.8m cable works but the 2m ones do not; says there is a bandwidth issue.
The chipset in the Core Ultra 1 mainboard that drives the ports is a newer generation correct? Something is clearly different from a hardware/firmware standpoint on the 11th gen vs. the Core Ultra 1 mainboards. It would be interesting to see what is going on with the EC while this is happening. The console log probably has some interesting things to say when it is trying to output over the 2m cables vs. the 0.8m ones.
Yeah, that’s annoying. Not sure if the support agent understood that this isn’t an issue on many other laptops, including earlier Framework. Have you tried asking the ticket to be escalated to engineering?
Interesting point. I think we can lift up the black plastic cover on both Core Ultra and 11th Gen boards, snap some highres pictures and try to ID the Thunderbolt and PD controllers.
I don’t currently have 11th Gen or Core Ultra board handy, otherwise I would gladly do it.