You don’t need the vPro variant, since IIRC the vPro stuff is intel-cpu-specific, so you can get the non-vPro Intel AX210.
But from what I’ve heard, even the vPro one will work, just without the vPro features (don’t know what those even are).
2 Likes
Alex, thank you for sharing your experiences. I hope you’re also enjoying this back-and-forth while it does look like a lot of people are taking your feedback as criticism of their choices.
That screen must be really frustrating, and the wireless issues a suck on you enjoying the keyboard and form factor. I hope you get a fix for your screen.
I went with a DIY edition using the Intel AX210 straight up, not expecting much from the Mediatek device. I think that there should be advice from the Community Forums to build DIY and get the Intel AX210 instead of the Mediatek.
K3n.
2 Likes
My screen malfunctioned similarly, and support has refused to replace it under warranty. Given the number of such cases I’m seeing in the forums and on reddit, this appears to be a systemic issue, not customer-induced damage as they’ve claimed.
At this point, I endorse your verdict. It’s a shame.
4 Likes
I can also agree with this sentiment. I got a R9 16" and before powering the thing on swapped out the rz616 with an ax210 to prevent issues. Only issue ive had soo far with mine is the occational windows not sleeping correctly.
I do not want to write a full review, so will leave my comment here.
I am using Linux as my main OS for at least last 15 years, during that time I’ve used many laptops including top of the line Dell XPS, some with hybrid graphics, several generations of thinkpad. from t430 to T14 (AMD version). I am on Arch Linux, which I’ve installed back maybe 8 years ago and since when was cloning between drives or moving main drive between laptops, some day I might try Nix. I have Secure boot + Full disk encryption with TPM and pin enabled. The last year I’ve spent with Framework 13 AMD.
=== Initial experience 10/10 ===
Had no problems, ordered, order was delivered, change in the order was handled through email without questions asked.
=== BIOS 9/10 ===
not framework responsible for the software, so I leave only BIOS. I’ve posted the issue with password complexity which was annoying, it was fixed, relatively quickly (I would say quicker than I’ve expected). Everything was working out of the box, didn’t have issues with wifi except slow roaming, replaced with Intel adapter for £15 solved the problem, might try back the original one day, but didn’t want to tinker at the time I would say wifi replacement was the fun I have with almost every laptop, dell XPS, acer (do not remember the model) OEM adapters didn’t work on Linux at all.
But comparing the experience to other laptops manufactures, I am supper happy, firmware delivered through fwupd without any problem, worked flawlessly. Comparing the size of Framework team to Dell or Lenovo, I can only say: “Amazing Job!”. Lenovo hasn’t fixed BIOS issues in my T14 AMD gen 1 yet, and it is now EOL so would never be fixed.
== Hardware quality 9/10 ==
My unit arrived with sticking Enter, but was replaced and since then had absolutely 0 issues, everything works better than expected. Happy with screen, happy with the keyboard, camera and microphone, fingerprint sensor just worked in Gnome.
== Email support 8/10 ==
Support was ok, as I would expect it to be, as I said my laptop arrived with a bit defective keyboard, after a few videos and steps trying to fix, the keyboard was replaced, so no complaints. Why not 10? A few diagnostic steps might’ve been challenging for a non-technical person, which I would advise going to a repair centre to do. Again, not sure how to handle it better, wasn’t a problem for me though.
== Overall verdict 10/10 ==
I would recommend. and do recommend everyone. Dell XPS, fan failed 3 times, returned on warranty, every time the fan fails I spent at least a month with support, amount of time lost for me was easier to order a fan and replace it myself (BTW very annoying process with getting motherboard out, engineer damaged motherboard doing that so ended up with the new board as the result), driver support, first 1.5 years were absolutely nightmare as half of the things were not functioning properly (again possibly just Linux kernel catching up). Lenovo a bit better. Framework had the best power saving and worked out of the box.
Apple was the worst, it crashed the WindowServer (me loosing all the work) when I connect Belkins TB3 dock (sold on the apple website), ticket still open (even laptop died), had the famous butterfly keyboard. Finally display cable broke after 3 years (at that time it was used by wife as she needs only browser and doesn’t use the dock station), so laptop went to rubbish as repair is not viable (£600 for new screen is higher than laptop value and has the same issue, £250 for a used one, which will last unknown number of hours), tried to eBay it, twice auction stopped at £80-100 and after buyer disappeared. I’ve replaced the Macbook with an old “tuned a bit” T430 which felt like an upgrade for my wife 
.
6 Likes
Looking at the picture, i am pretty sure that each and every customer support in the world will tell you this is customer induced damage, because it most likely was…
In like 99% of the times a screen looks like this, there was physical stress on the display, causing it to crack.
Sorry for your loss, sh*t happens, but i really dont think FW is the one to blame for this…
I have been using laptops as my primary development machines for well over twenty-five years at this point, and have never had a screen fail in this manner through normal use.
Perhaps more to the point: if Framework either lacks the confidence in the ability of its chassis to protect the screens from damage from normal use, or more broadly, simply won’t replace screens with faults that could have been caused by customer use - they should clearly exclude that in the warranty, and let customers make an informed decision about the risks they’re willing to take.
Given the number of such complaints and the reported inconsistencies in how Framework has responded, I have to conclude either Framework’s screen supplier isn’t shipping high quality products, or Framework’s hardware design is inadequate.
2 Likes
Edit to add - first, I am sorry that your screen broke. That stinks.
Next, is there any manufacturer that will “replace screens with faults that could have been caused by customer use”?
Yes, though often with an explicit one-time replacement policy. Other companies exclude screens from warranty coverage specifically. Some offer additional warranty coverage that explicitly includes limited screen replacements.
They key point here is “could have been caused”. I and the many others with similar issues report zero physical indication of damage and only normal use; some report the problem manifesting without the laptop even having been moved. Framework is, in essence, claiming we are all lying.
3 Likes
Unfortunately that’s the world we live in. For example, companies added moisture sensors to their products so that they could prove that the device had gotten wet.
Best of luck getting things resolved, whether repairing the existing machine or moving to something else.
Glad that you pointed this as it reminded me the reason they do so: under any sane jurisdiction (like most EU countries to my knowledge), if there’s no reasonable indication that a given damage was user induced, then the warranty provider cannot just refuse the service. Kinda like “innocent until proven guilty” for consumer rights. Otherwise providers would be able to basically refuse any service by always just claiming “user induced”…
2 Likes
I and my Apple customers have gotten replacements from Apple that were likely to be (or that we knew to be) customer-caused. Same with top covers (for keyboard issues caused by us end users).
Apple is large enough to eat the loss just to keep the customer’s loyalty. They make it back over time, as these customers continue to buy (IMO) overpriced Macbook Pros over the years.
I get that Framework is not large enough to eat the losses of customer accidents, but there is a dollar value incentive to doing so (it essentially is a marketing cost). For example, rather than spend $1 million on a SuperBowl ad, a laptop maker could spend $1 million on replacing broken displays, no questions asked, and probably could get more total revenues over time than the SuperBowl ad could have.
1 Like
Yeah, definitely glad I posted as there have been some interesting replies. (The Intel NIC arrived today!)
Lurking on Linux forums so how-dare-you-question-my-X is nothing new. Imagine if I had said I’m buying an XBox instead 
===
The way I see it, Framework had initially built up goodwill with me with their repair guides and initial design. As a result of that good will, I was happy to pay a higher price.
Last spring, I realized they messed up the BIOS/ACPI, WiFi, and USB-C ports and spent a fair bit of time troubleshooting. That burned the positive goodwill and leaves them neutral.
Eventually, Framework got enough bad publicity for this and decided to improve the situation.
Then the screen failed (admittedly he-said/she-said, but I believe myself to be honest), and their support burned my remaining goodwill. I’ve removed their logo sticker, and no longer feel justified recommending Framework to other people. Particularly non-tech friends/family, for whom I’ll recommend a device less likely to need repair. Personally, I don’t think that’s a good way to enter a market, but we’ve each made our respective choices. Perhaps if enough people continue to point out screen and/or chassis deficiencies they’ll decide to improve the situation.
To be clear, I hope Framework succeeds in both improving their quality and steering the market towards repair-ability. Hell, I’ve checked their job postings a few times! Still, I don’t feel particularly inclined to waste more time and money waiting. Better suppliers exist.
3 Likes
Also, this guy has absolutely perfect comedic timing in his “customer-induced-damage.” 
2 Likes
I have to disagree with almost everything. I bought the AMD version and have had nothing but a great experience.
For linux instead of going with something not supported i went with one of the distros that is, in my case bluefin and aurora. Hell, I can even switch between them with one command no issues.
I use and egpu, nvidia and intel both have worked well out of the box through usb4.
I know everyone has their preferences but mint has never been my go to. I think the team that works on blufin/aurora have put together something really special. I have been daily driving it since trying it coming from fedora/kde. I do a lot of ML and gaming on steam on my framework. To be completely honest I was not happy with the immutable idea but once you get used to and learn how to leverage it there is no coming back. I have always had a working laptop even when i heavily mess with the OS
I may be sounding like a fanboy at this point that this is coming from a guy who used to spend $1200+ on a laptop every year. I don’t want to change my framework until they Framework releases another amd version (I am still hopeful for a strix point main board upgrade).
I understand we all have different experiences and that the product my not be perfect that even every laptop is different due to manufacturing (which I personally I’m inclined to think only has gotten better over time, I come from an intel 12th).
I have ask for a couple of things from the FW team but they are very niche. I would like to be able to set the amount of RAM for the igpu on the bios and would really love a black chasis (which i understand there are reason why not). I am a little bit of a maniac and fortunately have found work around for both. I may be ordering extra chasis parts to get them anodized but have have not figured out how to get the touchpad in black…
4 Likes
Thats just not true, My $3k Apple Macbook pro with broken screen cable (not customer induced, flexgate) was refused to be replaced, even cable and screen in 2017 is absolutely the same as 2016 and has the same problem. One fun fact that I was refused compensation in class action on keyboard because they had no record of my top assembly being replaced, even the official apple shop did the replacement. Across all vendors, Apple is just the worst.
So you’re calling me a liar based on your own negative experiences with Apple, completely disregarding my own positive experiences with Apple?
I’ve been repairing/supporting Apple products since 1992 including supporting many graphic design/video professionals. In all that time, my customers/end-users absolutely have had Apple replace or repair for free parts that were damaged by the customer. I would be willing to go on the stand in court and testify to this under penalty of perjury.
I am not saying that they never deny such claims. It is up to their discretion. They absolutely have denied me or my end-users/customers many times. But on balance, we’ve had more luck getting stuff that was over-the-line-our-fault repaired or replaced than not, including displays or display cables.
I always make it a point to go to the Apple Genius Bar in person to make these requests. I have had terrible luck getting free repairs done by requests made over the phone or online.
I’ll go on a weekday morning when foot traffic is slow so the Genius doesn’t feel hurried and the store isn’t too noisy, so we can talk relaxedly. And it’ll be one of the Apple Stores in an affluent area where they are likely to provide more accommodating service. I always am super nice to the Genius when asking for the repair that I know could be denied. No whining, no complaining, no trickery–just be chill and straightforward.
Almost always the repair requests that succeeded were under warranty (AppleCare Protection Plan), but I did manage to get one out-of-warranty repair done (top cover, keyboard malfunction).
I also did get a display replaced before FlexGate but none after FlexGate became a known thing. Here’s what I think: during the early part of FlexGate, I think Apple saw too many display cable repair requests coming in, and due to the high cost of replacing the entire display, they put out an internal bulletin saying to all Geniuses: DO NOT repair FlexGate-affected laptops any longer.
Note that I am not an Apple fanboi. Currently I am boycotting Apple on principle (I believe strongly in the Right to Repair) and also professionally (Apple’s designs are harder to repair than ever, effectively meaning that I send all my Apple customers/end-users directly to the Genius Bar now for anything hardware-related. These customers often seem disappointed when I turn them away, as if I am refusing to help them because I don’t like them personally or something.) I have exactly one Apple product left in my own possession and will be 100% Apple-free when it dies. So to some degree I agree with you that Apple is awful, but not based on their denial of our repair requests. I just don’t like having to go to them for every hardware repair.
I do not warn people not to buy Apple products, and if they ask, i will tell them that they make excellent products. I still recommend Apple to some customers/end-users if appropriate. This even in spite of FlexGate and my own 2016 Macbook Pro’s failed USB C port. It’s a numbers game, and in my 35 years of experience in IT support, overall, Apple products are more reliable than Dell or Lenovo and certainly much more reliable than HP.
Also, to be crystal clear, I am not negating your negative experiences or negative opinion of Apple. I believe you suffered unfairly at their hands; I am just pointing out that the Apple Store Genius Bar does have some discretion as to what to repair and that you can maneuver through some repairs that probably should be denied. It does take effort and luck.
BTW, regarding your own FlexGate MBP, if you are comfortable replacing the display and lid assembly yourself, the best price/source is probably Rewa.tech. They charge a lot for shipping but the quality of their parts (which may include refurbished, like new) has been very good in my experience.
I agree with Xal. I updated my early 11th gen to AMD, and have been running Manjaro (arch-based) for the duration. Other than some mediatek pain that resolved with kernel 6.11, mine’s been solid. Abused as heck, and I’ve broken and replaced many components over the years, but it’s still my daily driver.
My FW usually travels to crazy places with me. I broke my normal habit and took the Thinkpad X1 Carbon to Costa Rica last week, and completely regretted it. Nothing bad about the TP, I just prefer the FW.
Can we remove or disable it?
He probably means the moisture indicator stickers most manufacturers put in their products. From a repair perspective knowing there has been water is pretty useful and so is able to tell if a customer sends in something water damaged as warranty case.
Problem there is that those indicators can often be triggered by humid air that is a thing in some places so it does also lead to legit warranties being denied which is less good.
As for removing, if it’s the sticker kind you certainly can XD.